Posted: January 27, 2012 at 6:59 am

Truth v. Lies: Economic Facts About Montana

(A 2012 Montana election primer for Democrats)

A while back I posted some talking points for Democrats. A few commenters asked for some elaboration.  These points are very important for candidates and citizens alike, and I will reiterate them today.

It must first be understood that the GOP imbeciles in Montana (meaning most candidates, operatives, party leaders, heads of conservative groups, legislators and so on), have been in a state of perpetual anger and rage for the last six years or so. Why?   Because they controlled Montana for 20 years, virtually ran it into the ground, and then have since been forced look on, helplessly, as Democrats took over the reins, went to work, and helped Montana make great strides.

Republicans cannot abide the fact that Dems have gotten the state in strong shape after decades of GOP neglect. Thus they have resorted to a rather sad strategy: they denigrate, deride and degrade (trash, in essence) the state of Montana, the Montana economy, and state government, even though we have one of the best economies and most efficient state governments in America.

Facts

1.  Under Democrats, Montana has developed more energy (wind, coal, oil, gas) than at any time in history. (http://www.innovatemontana.com/economic-development/economic-development-report/)

2. For the last several years Montana has been ranked consistently among the top ten states in America for our tax climate and our business climate.  We are one of the best places in America to start a business, across the board. Just this week, we were rated 8th best in the nation. (http://helenair.com/news/local/state-and-regional/study-ranks-montana-eighth-in-business-tax-climate/article_ad5e20da-47ec-11e1-8152-0019bb2963f4.html)

3.  We have one of the lowest unemployment rates in the nation.  This week, it went down again, to below 7%.  (http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/c068f307265449a18d8af20db28f23d1/MT–Montana-Unemployment/)

4.  This has not gone unnoticed by Montana voters, for when asked, 55% of them recently said in a survey that the state economy is on the right track as opposed to the wrong track. In only three other states in America did voters respond so positively to that question.  In most states, voters think their state economy sucks.  (http://www.publicsectorinc.com/map/pdf/mi_ss_mt.pdf)

5.  Finally, Montana was recently rated as the best fiscally managed state in America. Eighty-three percent of Montanans think that state government is managing taxpayer money wisely.  No other state came even close.  (http://mtcowgirl.com/2011/09/22/stunning-poll-results-from-a-ten-state-survey/)

(http://www.publicsectorinc.com/map/pdf/mi_ss_mt.pdf)

6.  And why shouldn’t they feel this way?  Montana has a $400 million surplus.  In fact, for the last five years Montana has had a record sized surplus.  And only a handful of states have surpluses right now. Most are in financial crisis. And Dems have cut more taxes than Republicans ever did. (http://helenair.com/news/state-and-regional/montana-budget-looking-at-million-surplus/article_a8764bcb-2076-5c99-a128-e54fbb473922.html)

7.  Don’t just take my (liberal) word for it.  Ask FoxNews or the Wall Street Journal, both of whom recently editorialized about the spectacular fiscal shape the state is in. For that matter, so did Denny Rehberg and Newt Gingrich.  And so has every major newspaper in Montana.

(http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704130904574644510559988716.html)

(http://missoulanews.bigskypress.com/IndyBlog/archives/2011/10/18/fox-news-contributor-suggests-dems-follow-montanas-lead)

8.  The extra dough that Democrats have saved taxpayers has been (1) returned in the form of a rebate (the largst taxpayer rebate ever in Montana) and (2) spent on education, a historic investment in schools. (http://www.governor.mt.gov/boed/docs/GovernorsPresentationToBoardOfEducation_Jan_2008.pdf) see page 5

These are important points that, too often, are not internalized by Democratic candidates. But they are crucial.  They are a dagger in the heart of Republicans.  The message is very clear: In Montana, Democrats are a special breed, who are good with money, run government efficiently, and know how to create jobs and a strong business climate.  It’s why Schweitzer has become one of the most popular Governors in America; it’s why Democrats won big in 2008; and it’s probably why Tester is leading Rehberg.

Why are these points, as opposed to other things that Democrats like to talk about, the ones that must be emphasized? Because they rebut the false story told by Republicans which is that Montana is strangling business with too much regulation, too many taxes, too much spending, etc.

This is what they are saying right now.  Rick Hill, GOP candidate for Governor, was on the radio for a half hour the other day, and all he could do was trash Montana.  The irony, of course, is the Rick Hill is a teat-sucker of major proportions. He sucked large at the government teat, earning almost a million bucks in taxpayer dollars as a landlord who rented property to the government. All while his wife was working in the governor’s office. And he’s complaining about “too much spending”?

Aside from being ineffective politically (because the polls show us that voters side with Democrats and like what they are seeing out of state government), it’s very unpatriotic and a truly awful dereliction of one’s civic duty, to throw your state under the bus, tell lies about it, in order to win an election.  Democrats like Schweitzer try to recruit businesses and market the state’s assets, and the GOP undercuts the whole effort by telling the whole world how bad Montana is for business, when nothing could be further from the truth.

Finally, I got an interesting comment from a blogger who said that these talking points I’ve provided for Dems “sound like Republican talking points.”  Trust me, there is nothing Republican about balancing the government checkbook and running a surplus, or using government in an active way to attract business to the state. Republicans know how to create deficits, cut taxes while fighting trillion dollar wars, and promote Federal Identification cards, and fight for Spear Hunting rights.  What Montana needs is strong management of an effective state government, and Dems have provided it. Adopting the Gold Standard is not a credible economic policy.  Again, the facts are in: Democrats know how to manage money; republicans do not.

And remember, there is a reason you hear the GOP gubernatorial candidates talk so much about Obama. It’s because they need to present voters with a Democratic boogeyman, and they can’t find one in in Montana.

The good news is, Democratic candidates are now on the offense talking about jobs, as you can see from the articles below.  Armed with the facts, we can all help them win.

 

KTVM:  http://www.nbcmontana.com/ktvm/30300689/detail.html
MT Standard:  http://mtstandard.com/news/local/democrats-listening-tour-stops-in-butte/article_1ef30e62-47df-11e1-ac06-001871e3ce6c.html
KXLH: http://www.kxlh.com/videos/democrats-host-jobs-tour-in-helena/
KFBB: http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/Democrats-Bring-Jobs-Tour-to-Capitol-City-138167454.html
Beartooth NBC: http://www.beartoothnbc.com/news/helena/17861-jobs-tour.html
MT Standard: http://mtstandard.com/news/local/business-jobs-listening-tour-coming-to-butte-wed/article_ed5c4092-45e7-11e1-a43d-001871e3ce6c.html
KFBB: http://www.kfbb.com/news/local/Democratic-Representatives-Meet-with-Residents-137630223.html

 

36 comments

  1. Mark Tokarski

    Even though most of what you say is factual, the connections you make (it is due to election outcomes) are nonsensical. It’s like when Clinton happened to be Preisdent during the dot.com bubble, which yielded a temporary surplus, and Democrats ever since saying that Clinton by some sort of magic produced the surplus. That’s frankly stupid.

    Motana’s income tax is essentially a 6.9% flat tax with a small kicker for capital gains, put into effect by the “other” party. Natural resource taxes are very high, and that’s where the surplus arises, not mentioned here, of course. That is what is pushing the employment numbers, so unless some silly Democrat discovered the Bakken reserves, you are jumping in front of the parade and saying that you decorated the floats.

    Montana enjoys some prosperity due to events beyond everyone’s control. Man this is annoying!

    Which is all the other party would do. You’re not different nor better. It would be nice if Montanans had real choices.

    • Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

      Again, you have pointed to factual statements, stated they were not factual, then go one to state BS that has no Basis in fact Mark! Whats up with that! We do not have a flat tax in this state, this is about the same as California had hundred years ago until the GOP got a hold of it and it was a matter of 50 years until the poor people of that state were saddled with 65% of the states income!

      The GOP right now in this state are trying for the same thing, as what happened to alot of the other western states… we dont want that happening! There should be no More concessions for any big company coming to this state! period! this is why we have money in our tills when no other state does… and the GOP are doing everything in their power to put it on the backs of a million people in this state!

      • Mark Tokarski

        I said “essentially” a flat tax. Yes there are brackets, but last I looked you hit the top bracket at $14,000. That is what I meant by use of that word.

        The rest – cannot deal with your evil-them good-us mentality. You’re on another planet.

        • Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

          Thats what wrong with you Mark Right now it is Us against them… and it doesn’t have to be attached to a Party but the GOP are Going out of their way, embracing the 1%! That is not the Democrats, or independents!

          I want my community to be secure in their homes and property, knowing their tap water is safe to drink, and the air they take into their lungs clean! I want Montana People to find safe medical care without the dogma of religion attached to it! I want them all to have the chance for a job that pays well enough for them to have at least a small savings account set aside, when they wish…not living paycheck to paycheck! I would like them to have the best education Montana can afford, and good roads to travel on! Whats wrong with having a pristine countryside?

          These are basics the GOP are willing to do away with to allow corporations tax cuts,and take Montana ranchers and farmers property rights away from them! Sorry I do not go for that kind of thinking

      • rleeh

        “no other state…”
        actually, there’s a handful…
        remember we are talking accounting…”tricks”…

        http://www.stateline.org/live/ViewPage.action?siteNodeId=136&languageId=1&contentId=15158

        we also happen to be the 12 poorest state.

        http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/ranks/rank34.html

        that would be 1 in 6 below the poverty line…

        just below tenna-damn-see

        there are twenty something states on a par of better than mt on lung cancer…

        http://www.cdc.gov/cancer/lung/statistics/state.htm

        at least on water, we are ahead of mexico…

        http://scorecard.goodguide.com/env-releases/water/index.tcl

        there’s plenty of work to be done, but funding economic “losers”, citizen, or environmental is tough when the money is dictated by polly-taxers and corpse-rats.

        also, while the themocraps have shown the best years economically (still a dime on the dollar) for years…
        that sure contributes to the them/us issue…
        which cuts the “power of the people” roughly in half, or worse if you include the three-party.
        one could pull up the controlling party for the winner/loser states and see what party controls the bliss. bet it’s close to a wash. which would mean,dime’s worth of difference.

  2. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    Yes but, we can actually LEARN from the Republicans too…….the Republicans of old!

    As Theodore Roosevelt said more than 100 years ago, “Our duty to the whole, including the unborn generations, bids us restrain an unprincipled present-day minority from wasting the heritage of these unborn generations. The movement for the conservation of wild life and the larger movement for the conservation of all our natural resources are essentially democratic in spirit, purpose, and method.” And later, “The conservation of natural resources is the fundamental problem. Unless we solve that problem it will avail us little to solve all others.”

    You see, if you don’t build it, they will come! We must be DAMNED careful what sort of economic development we want! It must be on OUR terms, not the terms of the rape and run corporate fascist bastards!

    Hell, even the inbred REEtards like Pastord Cheesey Bulbdim understand that Montana is special. It is STILL relatively unspoiled and a refuge for those seeking to escape the giant shithole the rest of the country has become.

    Hence, my maxim. Economic development must make economic sense. Let me repeat that one more time slowly. Economic……development……must……make…….economic……..SENSE!

    Those of us who have lived here for a long time are quite familiar with what Montana used to look like, and what it looks like now. It’s not HARD to do the math and calculate and project that at our current rate of shitholiness just what the state will look like in twenty to fifty years!

    Hence, is THIS what we really want? Montana a giant shithole like texass? Why? Why would we want that? I don’t. And I THINK that MOST thinking Montanans would agree!

    There is one thing lacking in all of this. VISION! I want EVERY candidate, both Pubbie and Dem, to STATE explicity their VISION of what their Montana will look like when my grandkids are my age and I’m long gone! You see, I can’t stand by and allow them to turn it into a giant shithole. And at the rate we’re going, by ANYone’s math, that will be the end result!

    Look, we USED TO have decent environmental protections. We USED TO have a coal severance tax that put a HUGE amount of money into our state coffers. But over time, the Pubbies in the lege destroyed all that. We USED TO have a Major Facility Siting Act with teeth. But that too is gone. Hence, I’m proposing a Major Facility SHITTING Act! Before a corporate fascist bastard is allowed to SHIT in our aquifers and water supply, they must get the approval of the people of Montana!

    Is that so wrong? I think that Republican Teddy would agree. He knew that we were not the last people to come along. We’re here for just a short time! Do YOU want your grandkids drinking SHIT?! I don’t!

    We must stop fracking NOW! Not tomorrow but now. And let the oil bastards know that NO ONE gets to shit in our water for free! That is a great place to start!

    And remember, if you don’t build it (in other words, turn the state into a toxic shithole)they will come. We will attract the kind of businesses that we want. Economic development MUST make economic sense. That bad guys always stand ready to rape the state. We must stop them before they do!

    Our oath must be First Do No Harm to Our Water! It has to be that way.

    • rleeh

      the “used to” got packaged like bad mortgages and put up for a no-bid contract…
      we won’t hear about the sale until it was history.

  3. draftmama

    I don’t understand why the Democratic party is unable/unwilling to point out that the reason the Republicans can’t stand Obama is because he is black. The dog whistles are everywhere – just look at the Flathead where “even our beaches are beautifully white” and “all of the babies born in our hospital are white”.

    If Republican candidates and voters were honest about their racism, it would make the picture infinitely clearer for the rest of the electorate. I don’t believe that the average Montanan is racist, though its obviously part of the electoral atmosphere, particularly with respect to Native Americans.

    Pretending that hating Obama is just about him being a socialist, when in fact he has governed as a middle-of-the-road Republican, is pretty silly.

    Progressives are deeply disappointed in the President they voted for who promised change, and has done nothing to prosecute the crooks on Wall Street and the big banks who crashed the economy.

    Passing the ACA which mandates individuals purchase private insurance is clearly not socialism – just another handout to the insurance lobby – really no better than Medicare Part D which handed billions in profits to Pharma by preventing Medicare from negotiating better prices for prescription drugs like the VA and Medicaid can do.

    Socialism – not so much. Racism – therein lies the problem.

    • Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

      Obama stands for what the American dream really stands for: That if you work hard, and go to school and excel, that if you do things to help the community you are an embodiment of the American Dream! They never thought a black man would ever go this far! But it also be a hispanic or an asian, or a poor white that came from a rural background! they just dont want to see that

      The GOP of today do not want Americans who think…. they want Obedient Workers! People just smart enough to pull levers on a machine, but not Question the state of the air they breath, or the water they drink! The GOP doen’t want people to question the lousy pay they are getting or the fact that their taxes are going up, cuz the GOP wants to give Corporations tax breaks instead! this is the starkest difference I have seen between the party’s as a whole!

        • Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

          Rleeh, Likes to mash every problem into a big bowl of the last thirty years and blame the current president cause he wont waive a magic wand and fix it all!

          Typical bullspitter…. just takes the side of least resistance, never offers anymore then sarcasim, and then says she doesn’t vote

          Blah, blah, blah,blah blah

          • rleeh

            ndakai…

            sometimes YOU are full of bs…
            not surprisingly you don’t take the alert all that well.
            all you guys are a scream….
            your el presidente is a war criminal as was his predecessor…
            as is the habit of this nation…
            that is his biggest lie to date along with closing gitmo. remember?
            you are fine with that based on your comments around here…
            you and yourn seem to be fine with the LARGEST theft against any people in history…estimated on thruthout to be $17 TRILLION.
            may, depending on the next few weeks in europe, collapse the entire world economy…
            the banksters haven’t assembled the balls to rip that hard since the last time they did it…
            and YOUR polly-taxers…
            the ones you nittied about here…
            signed off on it.
            MONEY IN POLITICS and the TWO PARTY SYSTEM just did what it does best…
            SCREW THE WORLD.
            and…
            based on the times you have mentioned those crimes,
            it’s all good.

            but i’m bizzare for staying on it while you guys talk about some nonya from das hinterlands who won’t do shiz for nobody, nohow.
            go figure.

      • Mark Tokarski

        I find your list to be nothing more than apologetics, a shirt shopping list of items that happen to have gone our way (like DADT and SCHIP) with no evidence that the election of Obama was a key factor, since his role is often mere words. These two items were the result of ground-level organizing that forced the hand of people on top, and not any tribute to Obama. Where is evidence of his active involvement?

        Other things, like more people having access to health care, are mere sowing of confusion. We have more uninsured people now than before he took office. The health care bill is shit made to look like shinola, a huge power grab by the health insurance sector, made to look like reform by apologists.

        The rest of the list is pointless and trivial. If I were a list maker, I would start now and report back in an hour with several pages, single spaced, of sellouts, lies, coupled with active and forceful advancement of the Neocon agenda. He’s a con man, nothing more.

        You got nuthin’, son. You’re as good with stuff as you are predicting football outcomes, a very serious and worthy endeavor, to be sure. There is one area where I have found your insight useful: Zombies. Stick to what you are good at.

        • Rob Kailey

          Mark, you remain confused that people actually care about how you “find things”. Since you haven’t noticed, ‘how you find things’ is a clear statement of opinion, and carries little weight against facts.

          Wasn’t this going to be your “Kailey free” year? ~chuckle~

          • Mark Tokarski

            Yes, in my opinion, he extended he Bush Tax Cuts, claimed never to supported a public option during his campaign, ramped up existing wars, attempted to prolong Iraq troop presence in Iaw beyond the date agreed to under Bush, signed a bill authorizing disappearing of American citizens. Assassinated an American without any process , promoted and signed a bill without a public option forcing us to buy insurance from priavte comapnies … Just off the top of my head.

            Strange opinions, those.

            • Rob Kailey

              he (Obama)extended (t)he Bush Tax Cuts,

              No he didn’t. Congress did, after a hard fought battle over letting the cuts expire for those making more than $250,000/yr. Since you haven’t bothered to look beyond your opinion you haven’t noticed that that fight isn’t over yet.

              claimed never to supported a public option during his campaign,

              Funny that, Mark. I don’t remember him claiming anything of the sort. I’d ask you to offer evidence of your whine, but you just call that bullying authoritarianism. In short, you flee back intop the arms of mother rightwing Bullshit.

              ramped up existing wars,

              You are really offering that as evidence of anything other than your opinion? Seriously? What are the troop levels in Iraq today compared to January of 2009? What are the troop levels in Afghanistan compared to Jan of 2009? How many countries have we invaded and occupied under Obama?

              attempted to prolong Iraq troop presence in Iaw beyond the date agreed to under Bush,

              You keep claiming this with no evidence at all. And it’s been noted by many more than just me that even as of Obama’s inauguration you were screaming to the high heavens that we would not relinquish our occupation of Iraq. So it’s pretty well evident that you’re doing anything you can to bitch that Obama made you wrong. I’m sorry, Mark. It didn’t take a President to do that.

              signed a bill authorizing disappearing of American citizens

              Never happened. That isn’t what the NDAA says, and you simply won’t deal with what it does say. This is the clearest example of your opinion being contra to fact.

              Assassinated an American without any process

              Again, wrong. There was a process, just not one that you’re happy with. That process was pretty much complete under Bush, he just didn’t have the competence or courage to get the job done.

              promoted and signed a bill without a public option forcing us to buy insurance from priavte comapnies

              For goodness sake would just get a spellcheck ap already? You continue to ignore the fact that the majority of Americans already were *forced* to pay for insurance through their work as well as having to pay for those uninsured. Ask anyone who has benefited from its provisions and you’ll find that the ACA is a net improvement.

              Once again, Mark, shortly after telling us all how powerless an American President is, you come back and weep over the evil and overwhelming power of Obama. No wonder I think you’re a wingnut, though that is only my opinion of you. Still, I should thank you. In one comment you have proven what I claimed, that facts should not be confused by or subjugated to opinion, especially not yours. I’m certain you will loudly pronounce how you didn’t read my comment here. The part that should scare you, if you didn’t adore yourself quite so much, Tokarski, is that others will read it. Some of them will actually think about the facts. That’s an accomplishment of mine you remain woefully incapable of claiming except as a lie.

              • Mark Tokarski

                Obama is the “executive”, or that one man in the executive branch that we get to vote for. His name is shorthand for all that that branch does. That’s pretty basic. From thsi point forward, Obama = Excursive. OK, genius?

                He extended the Bush tax cuts. You explained to me how he framed that issue. You don’t understand politics very well. Framing is how you achieve your objectives. Here’s a hint: After he is reelected, he’s going to extend them again.

                Obama: “I didn’t campaign on the public option.” December 2009. Link

                Under the 11/08 SOFA, the US agreed to have all troops out of cities by June of 2009, and out of the country as a whole by 12/31/2011. The executive adhered to that agreement, but attempted in negotiations in 10/11 to bargain for troops to stay beyond that date. The sticking point was that Iraq would only allow troops to stay if they were not shielded by immunity from prosecution from crimes. The executive would but abide by that, and at that time, Obama announced that he was withdrawing troops had intended to all along. link Troop levels in various theaters are
                about where they have been all along, with more emphasis on that Pakistan attack. He did invade Libya, using NATO as cover, a war is going on in Yemen, Somalia is under attack, and troops are mounting around Syrian. Iran, as always is surrounded and threatened Nothing has changed in three years except locations.

                NDAA is a little more nuanced than you can handle. Obama threatened to veto the disappearance provision, but not because he opposed it. He did so because the executive claimed already to have that power, and would not countenance any congressional interference in powers it already had.

                There was a process in the killing of Aulaqi, and I’m just not happy with that process? That’s mental mush, the way you talk yourself into believing bullshit. Keep ti away from me, as it really stinks.

                As is your take on health care. There is no mandate in existence right now. That’s new. The bill is a massive sellout, written and shepherded through congress under health insurance company guidance, complete with Kabuki Theater, with the bill introduced in May ending up being the bill that passed in November.

                Your last paragraph, again, learn the difference between President, and executive. The latter is not in charge of the former, and that is where your confusion lies.

                I have considerable advantage over you here in that I don’t follow American news, am not spun by confetti and noise, keep my eye on the ball, and have a much wider base of knowledge and information than you in these matters. Your points are predictable and ill-considered, shallow and ill-considered.

                • Rob Kailey

                  Tokarski:

                  I find your list to be nothing more than apologetics, a shirt shopping list of items that happen to have gone our way (like DADT and SCHIP) with no evidence that the election of Obama was a key factor, since his role is often mere words.

                  No Power. Tokarski:

                  His name is shorthand for all that that branch does.

                  All blame. That smells like ass. Further Tokarski:

                  From thsi point forward, Obama = Excursive.

                  WTF? I’m certain that makes sense to him; how I have no idea.

                  After he is reelected, he’s going to extend them again.

                  If it helps me pay off my mortgage and student loans, I don’t rightly give a fuck. The battle over the Buffett rule continues.

                  Obama: “I didn’t campaign on the public option.” December 2009.

                  And he really didn’t. He campaigned on passing a health care reform bill. I seem to remember that he did that. You just don’t like the outcome. I guess it sucks to be you, Tokarski.

                  Tokarski, I’ve never argued with you about what the SOFA says, save that it doesn’t ‘mandate’ what you think it does. What I’ve written is that it was agreed to as Bush was stepping down to protect his legacy. What you’ve written is that *it would never happen as agreed*. You are attempting to blame me for you being so utterly, completely and terribly wrong. You are attempting to blame the President for doing the legal and right thing, because it makes you look completely, utterly and terribly wrong. Just admit you were wrong and move on. Yeah, like that will happen …

                  Keep ti away from me

                  I don’t do requests, as I’ve told you. Especially not ones of which you can’t even spell basic words.

                  Tokarski:

                  Your last paragraph, again, learn the difference between President, and executive. The latter is not in charge of the former, and that is where your confusion lies.

                  Tokarski:

                  Obama is the “executive”, or that one man in the executive branch that we get to vote for. His name is shorthand for all that that branch does.

                  It doesn’t really appear that I’m the one very confused here.

                  Tokarski:

                  Your points are predictable and ill-considered, shallow and ill-considered.

                  By all means, let’s trust the Department of Redundancy Department.

                  • Mark Tokarski

                    I don’t like going through the tedious here’s-what-you-wrote-here’s-how-I-answer nonsense. It’s boring! But it does serve you well in that it allows you to dwell in detail as the larger points pass you by. Your brother does this too – say we’re talking about all the traffic on the freeway, you say “Wait, that one car, the red one – prove that it is not a truck!” It’s a device, nothing more, a way of avoiding issues and at the same time trying to control the flow of ideas, as if you had any.

                    Anyway, Obama did indeed campaign on the public option. He has expanded our wars. The “executive” is a large group of people, thousands, millions if you count the military, who we like to think are under the control of the man we vote for, but are not. You completely folded your tent on the tax cuts. You’ve abandoned some issues now and are focusing on others, but mostly hitting on passages where my brain gets ahead of my fingers, and experience you cannot relate to. I know what I meant, you know what the words were meant to be … or maybe you don’t. You are dense.

                    As to whether or not you are liked, I doubt it. I did not take a shine to you on meeting you, and I’m not any special breed. I just thought you boring. If you think you come across differently in writing, well, you don’t. The thing that does go on with you is easy to understand – you are a Democrat in Democratic settings, and so do not force anyone to self-examine, just as you are incapable of self-examination. I tend to focus on things that make people want to turn away, as I do with Obama’s painfully obvious inability to control the executive. That makes people uneasy.

                    You’re a pain in the ass, a non-thinking classless dunderhead, but you do fit in and people do not get mad at you when you tell them that you think they are as dumb as you. Your attraction to detail and avoidance of large issues is part of your poor schooling.

                    • Rob Kailey

                      But it does serve you well in that it allows you to dwell in detail as the larger points pass you by.

                      That’s only because you’re missing the point, Mark. See, to you, the point is that your fantasies are all correct and that’s the bigger picture we should all be concerned with. To me, the point is that you haven’t clue one what you’re talking about. I present ample evidence to support my point. You, not so much.

                      See Mark, it’s those pesky little details you are so bored with that prove my point. To you, America is this monolithic Empire invading other good nations frequently and always with mal-intent. (Cue the Imperial march theme from Star Wars). But those details, what most people call facts, paint a much different picture. Despite your claims, we never invaded Libya, or Somalia, or Yemen or even Pakistan. You claim that the powerless/ultimately powerful President Executor Willing Slave Obama Prime “threatened to veto the disappearance provision”. Uhmm, the details tell a different story. The President doesn’t have a line item veto, Mark. He would have had to veto the whole bill. The executive already did have the power of indefinite detention. It’s written in the MCA. Go read it. What the White House complaint was referring to was the Congress usurping the power of the CiC, just as they did with Quantanimo. And yes, Mark, there is a mandate for health coverage right now. Emergency rooms are required to offer care to any who pass their doors. Who do you think pays for it, chuckles?

                      Every single time those “details” (facts) prove my claim that you’re full of shit, you fall back on Ad Hominem. You don’t like me because I’m not nice to you when you run your drunken delusional ass through the neighborhood causing problems. I don’t really care about you, Mark, but I certainly care about my neighborhood. I’m not willing to roll over and let you hurt others just to get your delusional jollies. Deal with it.

                    • Rob Kailey

                      You’re a pain in the ass

                      Just for the record, Mark, I wear that as a badge of honor. You and other lefty Puritangenicals amuse me. Enjoy your butthurt.

              • Mark Tokarski

                Oh yeah, and spellcheck – I usually rush through these places, and autocorrect gets the best of me, as with “excursive” above, but people understand that. Your own writing is tedious and iron-fisted, pedantic, humorless and nail-pounded-in-forehead boring, but correclty spelled.

                  • ILIKEWOODS AKA Norma Duffy

                    OMG! Was that a drubbing???? Did I just hear someone getting the stuffing knocked out of him with words alone??? Remind me never to get smart mouthed in letter form with you Rob… the Opponent never stood a chance!

  4. draftmama

    Thanks Norma – remember George Carlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jQT7_rVxAE

    I do see light at the end of the tunnel – people are so strung out, broke, desperate and angry and Mittens with his 13.9% tax rate on “unearned” income, i.e. doesn’t have to actually GO TO WORK is beginning to permeate the consciousness of the great unwashed.

    Can’t come a moment too soon.

    • Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

      Oh I agree with him Wholeheartedness on this Particular clip, he was right on the money! George Carlin might have been a comedian, but he also was right on a lot of things american people, about the GOP, as well as corporations!

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