Strohmaier’s Smart Ad

Montana Congressional Candidate Dave Strohmaier (D) has a smart new ad up.  The ad is different than anything else on the airwaves and shows he believes in fairness and equality for all people.  If he were really smart, Strohmaier could probably get some national talk show attention for this.  Perhaps that’s already in the works.

Here’s the ad:

Posted: April 26, 2012 at 6:40 pm

This post was written by Cowgirl

101 thoughts on “Strohmaier’s Smart Ad

  1. dashbored

    Favorite part of this at :22 seconds in. Audio “And you know what, that does annoy Republicans” and a woman dabs a tear. The tear dabbing could be that the wedding is touching OR that Stromaier annoys Republicans. Funny stuff.

    1. Dan T.

      Well, it is pretty great. I do think this was a smart move on his part. Of course, I haven’t seen it on the air.

  2. RR4

    Here’s why I think this is good. It’s bold, because its never been done in a Montana primary. But it’s bold on something that most people would agree is long past due: marriage equality. I may vote for Strohmaier. Still kinda’ leaning Franke, but we’ll see. I like when people prove that there are ways to be both liberal and politically smart.

      1. Mark Tokarski

        You don’t understand wedge politics as well? What on earth makes you believe you know anything about politics at all?

        A wedge issue is a social or political issue, often of a divisive or otherwise controversial nature, which splits apart or creates a “wedge” in the support base of one political group. Wedge issues can be advertised, publicly aired, and otherwise emphasized by an opposing political group, in an attempt to weaken the unity of the divided group, or to entice voters in the divided group to give their support to the opposing group. The use of wedge issues gives rise to wedge politics. Wedge issues are also known as hot button or third rail issues.
        (Wiki)

        It is not that these issues are of no import, but rather that they have the power to change voting behavior. Gay marriage, abortion, gun control, mosques – such issues are of no importance to politicians, but seeing that they can motivate voters will cause a politician to manipulate that issue to his advantage. Once elected, he can safely abandon it.

        That is probably what Strohmeier is up to here. He is after a particular bloc, and so crafted an ad to reach them at Wilmer’s expense. Once elected, it is forgotten.

        1. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

          Wow! Another Noam Chomsky! Noam Buttinski! bwhhwhahahahaa! Damn you’re deep, dude! NEVER have I seen a more astoot examination of a wedgie! Would you take a look at mine next? That sucker’s WAY up there!

          bwhhwhahahahahahahahaaaaa! Too funny!

              1. Mark Tokarski

                Your copy: To Blog Administrator: I am constantly hounded by Larry Kralj on your blog, and his posts are childish and abusive. I asked him today to simply refrain from interfering in other conversations, and his answer was “No thank you.” Can you please ask hims to cut back and tone it down?

                Thank you

                1. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

                  No thank you.

                  BWHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

                  Hey, you got your own blog, cupcake. Can you PLEAE restrain your bullshit to all your “fans”???

                  Thanks in advance!

                  You’re a funny dude, Buttinski. And hell, you think I’M the jokester! What a laff.

                  1. Mark Tokarski

                    Last I looked, Larry, this was a public forum. I don’t know where you get the idea that you decide who can or cannot post here. Now again, please stop harassing people who post here with your juvenile insults and reasoning.

                    1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

                      Dear Blog administrator, we need a Ban-aid on Marl Tokarski’s mouth as soon as possible!

                      Signed,

                      Larry Kralj friend

        2. Rob Kailey

          Missed it by that much.

          Tokarski, I clearly wasn’t asking what a “wedge issue” is. I asked what it was we were to “wary” of, a question you did answer after way too much beating around the bush. Tokarski:

          Gay marriage, abortion, gun control, mosques – such issues are of no importance to politicians,… That is probably what Strohmeier is up to here.

          You could have just written that you think Strohmeier is lying. See how easy that would have been? Of course, the next obvious question would be, why do you think he’s lying? Being the great critical thinker you are, I’m certain that you must have some insight into Dave’s beliefs that you can share with the class.

          1. Mark Tokarski

            Our job as vigilant citizens is never to trust politicians. In my conversations with you over the years I notice that your inclination, with Democrats, is to automatically trust, and with Republicans to automatically distrust. That is rote and mindless.

            I do not know the inner workings of his mind. I only know to be wary. It is primary time, and Democrats often pretend to be progressive when attempting to secure the nomination. For that reason, we progressives (I do not count you in our number) are wise to be vigilant. He has run a commercial using a wedge issue to appeal to us. That by itself is evidence of exactly nothing.

            1. Rob Kailey

              Subjective fallacy all around then.

              Tokarski, unlike me, you do trust Strohmeier. You trust him to be lying, and were simply too gutless to say so. And also unlike you, I don’t have to fall back on my experience with you to make that claim because your trust in Strohmeier to be a liar is exactly what you wrote. Then your delusion kicks in, and you simply assume that those who point out your lack of thought must really be the unwise ones.

              I don’t care whether you think I’m a progressive or not, but this has got to be one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen you write:

              For that reason, we progressives (I do not count you in our number) are wise to be vigilant.

              Didn’t you just write that “our job as vigilant citizens is to never trust politicians”? Not only is that factually incorrect, but why is it ‘wise’ for your special clique to be vigilant when that should be the job of every member of the polity? Wisdom demands that we question statements, and rigorously continue to gather the facts in a vigilant search for the truth of the matter. And yet you’re not vigilant at all. You simply assume ‘lie’, tell everyone else how ignorant we are as we don’t see your assumption as valid, and go your merry way – not voting, not organizing, not protesting, not actually being much of a citizen at all, vigilant or otherwise. If that is the wisdom of “progressives” then I’m perfectly happy not to be numbered among them.

              Here are the facts: there is no evidence that Dave Strohmeier is lying about his support for marriage equality, save that he put out a “commercial using a wedge issue to appeal to us”. You claim that’s “evidence of exactly nothing”, and yet you, oh great critical thinker, accept that very thing as evidence that he’s lying. You, yourself, wrote as much. You don’t need to be wary; you’ve made up your mind. My opinion is that Dave is not lying with this ad, but he still doesn’t have the track record of support for equality issues that Franke Wilmer does. So on this wedge issue, my support remains with Franke. Yours apparently remains only with yourself.

              Good day, Mr. Tokarski. I said Good Day, sir!

              1. Mark Tokarski

                I repeat – be wary. That’s all I said. When a primary candidate comes at progressives with a wedge issue, it is wise to be wary. I did not say disbelieve. It’s more like look for more and better evidence.

                Don’t you be all fallacy-bulling me – you and I both know you didn’t have a four point, and only took logic 201, unless it was a 100 level course.

                1. Rob Kailey

                  Now you’re lying Mark. You wrote rather exactly that Dave Strohmeier was lying to sway votes, so what “more and better” evidence do you now say we should be looking for?

                  And the only one who ever claimed that I had a 4-point was you. Don’t implicate me in your lies. You’re not smart enough to keep them straight.

                2. 987Max_Bucks1598

                  Actually, I was in that class with Kailey, back when Corky Brittan was teaching it.
                  Kailey would run off at the mouth endlessly, the kids would giggle at him, and Corky would just roll his eyes at the torrent of incoherence.

                  Nothing has changed since then. Kailey has a brain disease common to philosophy majors who cannot cope with the fact that they are not half as smart as they think they are.

                  Be that as it may, the real illogic here is not the truth or falsity of a political platform, but the absurdity of even considering the idea of homosexual “marriage.”

                  –MB

                  1. Rob Kailey

                    Nice tale, but I never took logic from Corky. My logic classes were all taught by Jim Allard. I’m certain that won’t stop your lies, troll, but you should at least get your basic facts straight.

                    1. 112Max__Bucks1620

                      OK, so maybe I confused the professors, but I noticed that you did not try to refute the substance of the story. Wiggle wiggle wulfie.

                    2. Rob Kailey

                      I don’t have to refute lies. They’re lies.

                      So, when you took this logic class with me, was it before or after you piloted the space shuttle and recorded your hit single? Come on, troll. You can certainly pop a better story than this …

                      And please, stop eating your boogers. It really grosses the rest of us out.

            2. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

              This is rich coming from a guy who says he never votes! The real answer here is you dont give a damn about Politics and you cant “Goldberg” Cuz your a Product of Colorado now! So even if you could vote it would have to be in a state other then here!

              1. Mark Tokarski

                I did not say I never vote I vote when there is a good indicate to vote for. I do not do lesser-evil voting, and I certainly don’t vote for right wingers, no matter their party. Ergo, I’ll not be voting for Obama again.

            3. Mark Tokarski

              You’re doing a little too much projecting for my taste.

              First let me clear up the other matter below. I have no idea your education creds, but having no faith in he man I meet on the blogs, find your constant references to logical fallacies to be amateurish, to say the least. Real life is far too complicated for that, but a 4.0 philosophy major, perhaps the bestnthat ever attemded MSU, would know that. A dabbler would not. Ideas cannot be hammered into place using your simplistic and annoying list of fallacies. It’s far more nuanced, as there is to enough of black/white ever to satisfy your linear thinking.

              As to Strohmeier, he is coming at us with a wedge ad. since political ads, by definition, are meant for effect and do not carry substance, the ad can only be aimed at progressives in an effort to gain trust. It is exactly in this situation that smart people pull back, analyze, doubt and maintain high skepticism. He may be the best guy for the job, but my God how the folks here go ga-ga over an advertisement! An ad fer chrissakes. An ad!

              Your assumption that I think I know his mind and am calling him a liar is beneath contempt. We can never know the mind of another and only judge by use of our critical thought facilities combined with observation in the presetn and memory of the past, Tester’s run as a “progressive” in 2006 being an object lesson.

              As a Democrat who supports Democrats whether right wing or liberal, your thoughts on this matter are not even of interest.

              1. Rob Kailey

                Tokarski, the rest of your blather is useless, as are you. But …

                Your assumption that I think I know his mind and am calling him a liar is beneath contempt

                I didn’t assume anything Mark. I used your words. You directly called him a liar. Now you’re waffling because others you think worthy have disagreed. How nice for you. It still doesn’t change what you clearly wrote. You called Strohmeier a liar, Mark. So, on this point we are in agreement. You are beneath contempt.

              2. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

                Actually I am not projecting and warning people about you enough! Your still here.

        3. Pete Talbot

          Mark says, “Once elected, he can safely abandon it.” Mark is speaking of Dave’s commitment to marriage equality. I know Dave Strohmaier. He will not abandon this issue.

          1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

            Your Abosolutly right Pete I Know he wont abandon it either, But The person spreading this crap………… Mark Tolarski, is one of our ever present trolls and Propagandists. Dont feed this A- hole anything but contempt. By the way guard yourself from his other personalities of trollism here also, as he speaks in multiple personality’s frequently to get a rise from people.

            The guys a fruitcake and a sad little man, and he cant vote here, cuz he is not a Montanan! The guy is a Morrison, Colorado Troll!

            1. Matthew Koehler

              I hear what you are saying Mark, but I too know Dave Strohmeier and in this specific case I believe that, if elected to the US House, Dave would be true to his progressive roots. That’s my 2 cents at least.

                1. Matthew Koehler

                  Of course, back in 2006 when Singer may have been saying the same things about Tester, Singer was 23 years old and had very little political or policy experience. That’s not a dig against Singer, just really not sure why, back in 2006, people would have put much stock in what he had to say about Jon Tester, given his lack of political and policy experience at that time.

                    1. Mark Tokarski

                      I am watching baseball and typing away between innings and pitches, but as I said elsewhere, my problem is autocorrect, while your is the cavern between your ears coupled with narcissism and grandiosity.

                      I other words … Must spell correctly … You are totally full of shit.

              1. Rob Kailey

                Uh uh uhn, Koehler. You’re exhibiting that blind trust that Tokarski accuses all others of. So which shall it be? Are you just a tool, stooge, quisling or any other manner of names that Mark reserves for those who blindly trust? Or is Tokarski an enormous hypocrite? There are no other possibilities. Inquiring minds want to know.

                1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

                  Yea I think hes a Koehler Too! The men in little white coats are gonna get sent to Marks House soon. Another persona????

                  1. Matthew Koehler

                    All I was doing was sharing my view about a specific person running for Congress, Dave Strohmeier. I’ve known Dave for a while, as he lives in my neighborhood and he’s my city councilperson. I like Dave and he’s got two votes in our house. If Kailey and Duffy want to make everything about their pissing match with Mark, so be it…but please leave me out of it. Thanks.

                    1. Rob Kailey

                      Koehler, you commented in a thread very similar to others who have had to face the derision of Tokarski. You are welcome to now pretend that you have a position ‘above the fray’, but you really don’t. Your elitist whine not withstanding, you’ve joined the scrum, right along with the rest of us unwashed masses.

                      Mark Tokarski rather cowardly called Dave Strohmeier a liar, with no evidence or input from the likes of his friends, such as yourself. It is, then, with incredible duplicity that you denigrate Norma or myself for having defended your friend against Mark’s foolishness. And now, having leveled hypocritical accusation, you want to be ‘left out of it’? How about “no”. Does that work for you?

                2. Mark Tokarski

                  The words are used almost exclusively on you. And there are, of course, may other possibilities, but only a non-black/white thinker could see them.

                  1. Rob Kailey

                    I’ve never had words used on my before. What does that entail, and how does that feel? And “may other possibilities” sounds like a delightful activity at a Beltane rave.

                  2. Mark Tokarski

                    Stooge, too quisling.

                    Yes, autocorrect ism often my undoing, especially when i’m distracted. It can be hard to factor in the intended word.

                    Contrast this with you: muddled thinking torturous logic, tedious phrasing very good spelling.

            2. Rob Kailey

              Yes, Tokarski, once elected a politician has the potential to do any number of things, including not serving you or whatever label you apply to your desires. I’m certain that disappointing you is now “part of the playbook”.

              I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve requested that you document Jon Tester’s betrayal of progressives. You still claim it, but can’t even show it. I’ve no confidence that you will this time, either.

              1. Mark Tokarski

                Oh, yeah – I answered your brother about this elsewhere. This much I know: no matter what he does, you will support him because he is better than the unlimited evil presented by the other side. But since evil is by definition unlimited there can be no greater or lesser, so that is a fool’s bargain.

                And worse yet, Tester knows you (forgot, it’s Rod – Rod “you” here becomes the generic) will vote for him no matter, so that he has no restraints placed on him concerning his conduct in office and can get away with anything. Worse yet, you will wrap your brain around his actions and support them, twisting logic to the point where his actions actually become right and logical, while those of us who hold him to higher standards become “extremists.”

                As he has played the game like this, and succeeded. But it might be over for him now, and he might well, like Burns before, become just another lobbyist. This much I know: he’ll never again be a farmer. The boy left the farm for the city, never to return.

                1. Rob Kailey

                  Do you ever get dizzy thinking in circles as you do?

                  (By the way, it’s incredibly amusing to watch you right of “evil”, while accusing others of “black and white” thinking. It’s a nice attempt at something approaching a moral stance, but you still can’t lay any moral foundations for your delusions, can you?)

            3. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

              Which you can’t document about Tester, because you have no proof! Your just a troll from Colorado! Trolls will say anything to get attention! Mark Toadrski, or Goldberg, is no exception to that rule.

              1. Mark Tokarski

                There’s that word again – “proof.” Black/white thinking, a trait of the authoritarian mind.

                1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

                  Just because you wish to shift the Burden of proof, wont make your claims true Mark!

                  You have no proof, you have no alibi! you can not overcome, and therefore you cant diminish the claims against your lying, without that proof!

                  Asking any of us to support your flaw logic, by allowing you to continue your lies, would put the burden of proof on us………. We are just not willing to accept that tomfoolery from you…. Ever!

  3. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

    OMG Good for Dave, Now thats being an adult, and hitting the issue with good common sense. The GOP won’t know how to act, and I am sure Frankes Applauding this as well. Political correctness, should never be part of human dignity and respect! It deserves better then that! Bravo Dave Bravo!

  4. Farmboy

    I met Dave for the first time just the other night, at an event here in Eastern Montana, first off Dave gave the most energtic speech of the night, but all the candidates excpet for one gave great speaches, and the one that did poorly on his speech, had some good ideas, just needs either a public speaking class or some time at toastmasters. This ad, while I agree with it, the Republicans will use it to beat him about the head with in the fall campaign if he is the nominee. Not saying I would not like to see some of those teabaggers, and those focus on your own dam family and leave mine alone people go nuts, cause I think that would be entertaining, still I want to win this baby. In politcs close does not count you need to win, and this ad I think would be too in your face for some people of the older generation to accept. And would not be accpeted by independents, and some Christians who do not go lock step with the Republican party. I dont know, Im still debating what to do in the primary, part of me wants to take the gamble and vote in the Republican primary and see if I cant get Denny Rehberg defeated in June to save Sen Tester from having to raise so dam much money. Its an Idea. Then part of me wants to vote in the Democratic primary, cause one I ame a Democrat, two I like both attorney general candidates, even though there is one that I will choose over the other, but still I will fully support either candidate in the fall election. And if I do vote in the Democratic primary Im stuck between Strohmaier, cause he is electric, Rankin cause he makes sense and has alot of common sense. And Franke Wilmer cause she has such a great record in the legislature and comes from blue collar roots. I also have alot of respect for Diane Smith, but it comes down to stratagy to me, and I cant see her winning. Same token I cant see Sam Rankin winning the primary either.

  5. Rag_Man Von X

    Wow. This guy’s a really sick bastard. I bet his campaign headquarters is giving out rubber dicks also.

  6. Farmboy

    Here is something else I just thought of, back in 2004 when the citizens of Montana went to the polls, they did some strange things that election, but its Montana. First we gave our electoral votes to GW Bush, then turned around and elected Brian Schweitzer governor, and we had a couple of citizens initatives on the ballot that year, one was medical marijuana and it passed, and the other was a constitutional reforendum that defined marriage in the Montana constitution as the union between one man and one woman. Now the later that Im talking about, passed with overwhelming support of the voters, as did the medical marijuana and the two races I mentioned. So here is my point, regardless of how you feel on the marriage issue, Im putting my feelings aside here and asking this question, is this a good idea politically, when just eight years ago the voters of this state decided this question?

    1. Moorcat

      Actually, the amendment that was passed in Montana (as well as other states) may well be unconstitutional. In fact, similar amendments have already been declared unconstitutional in other states. Our’s has been challenged but (as far as I know) hasn’t been ruled on yet.

      Politically sound or not, it is the right thing to do. That will always be a feather in the cap of any politician that wants my vote. Now I don’t personally lean toward this candidate. He does represent the electorate in Missoula pretty well, but I don’t think he represents the majority of Montana. I was not as impressed with him as I was with two of the other candidates. That said, I am impressed that he would make this ad and stand behind it. This is the kind of “standing up for what is right” that I want to see.

      1. Farmboy

        Moorcat, let me play devils advocate with you, granted I do not agree with the gay marriage ban, but here is my argument, in the last legislative session, there were several attacks on voter initatives by the legislature. Those included medical marijuana, outfitter hunting tags, and cyanide leach gold minning. Now I personally gathered signatures on I-161 to get rid of the outfitter tags back in 2010, and in 04 I voted against removing the ban on cyanide leach gold minning, that was approved by the voters in 1996 or 98, and I voted in favor of medical marijuana. With all this in mind, when we attack the voter approved ban on gay marriage, aren’t we just playing at the same level that the 2011 legislature was playing at?

        1. Moorcat

          There is a significant difference here that maybe I didn’t make clear. The Constitution of the United States states quite clearly that – under the eyes of the law – we are all equals. It also makes clear that there are certain inalienable rights we all share.

          The Amendment banning same sex marraige creates a legal inequity that is not allowed under the Constitution of the United States. This inequity has already been pointed out in other states and it is being pushed in court in this state as we speak. Voter initiative or not, you are not allowed to violate certain things – one of those is our basic civil rights guarenteed to us under the Constitution of the US.

          If the voters passed an initiative that allowed local police to jail you without the benefit of your guarenteed rights under the Constitution, the same idea would apply. It would be – quite literally – unconstitutional and would not stand.

          That is the reason the last legislature failing to remove a law from the books (you know, the one that makes being gay illegal…) so completely stupid and laughable. The Supreme Court of Montana has already declared that the law is unconstitutional. Keeping it on the books is just silly and laughable. It can’t be enforced (due to the Supreme Court decision) and if someone tried to enforce it, they would set themselves (and their jurisdictions) to MASSIVE civil suits (if not criminal charges).

  7. Rob Kailey

    Thank you, Montana Cowgirl.

    This has played out enough times to be totally predictable. The Cowgirl posts an ad, thoroughly laudable, from a Democratic Candidate. Tokarski ponces on in to tell us all to beware, because the candidate is lying, manipulating us with a wedge issue that we won’t understand and he doesn’t really care about. One of Tokarski’s progressive heroes arrives and tells us that he likes this candidate. And now Tokarski is back-peddling faster than a coon-hound with the scoots.

    Seriously, you can’t buy entertainment this good!

    1. Mark Tokarski

      i did not call Strohmeier a liar, nor do I idolize Matt. That’s all projection on your sorry ass part. I said, and repeat, that campaign ads do not carry substance, but rather are designed (by advertising professionals) for effect. The fact that Strohmeier has crafted such an ad, and now presents it to the Huzzahs! of the congregated faithful here means nothing. Matt’s testimony that he knows the man means something to me, as I have respect for Matt, but I did caution Matt that Matt Singer (and, I might add, Jay Stevens) participated in a campaign in 2006 to win progressive support for Jon Tester, who turned out to be a right winger, and who now calls us extremists.

      So I warn everyone again, though I know it is futile, that campaign ads are meaningless. The fact that Strohmeier’s ad agency put together a clever one means nothing to me. What I want to know about him is this: If elected, will he sacrifice a second term to do the right thing in the first? That’s all it’s about – not surviving in DC, which requires selling out, as Tester did so quickly, but rather adhering to principle. If a man stands by principle in office, he can go down with honor, and another can replace him. Jon Tester’s second term is pointless, as in his first he did not fight for us.

      If you tell me that a man cannot stay in office by adhering to principle, then, finally!, you understand why electoral politics has so little import and why organizing outside of electoral politics is the only answer to our current malaise.

      1. Moorcat

        You keep saying that Tester is a “right winger” without ever providing a single bit of proof. Once again, you are lying. Do you know how to do anything else?

        1. Mark Tokarski

          The Kailey’s are, as we all know, wonderful people, even by their own account. But there is one slightly annoying feature which I must highlight a bit: black/white thinking. If I say something about Tester you don’t like I am a “liar.”

          It is also evidence of b/w mindset to want “proof.” That word appears time and again in Kaileyspeak. There are no proofs outside of hard science. There is only evidence for something, evidence against, and a harsh, unsatisfying world of gray.

          My evidence: he’s done nothing for progressive causes. He talks now and then, but there is no effort, no fighting. Mostly he has to defend himself for working against us, and so calls us names and hides away from burrowing questioning. His public appearances are scripted to keep him in good photo ops in friendly company, and away from detractors. He lacks the cajones to face us on a public forum.

          The ultimate (and most easily achieved) bit of effort he could have expended on all our behalf would have been to eliminate or curtail the filibuster rule. Instead, he voted to maintain it in its current form. This is convenient, because he can put all of the failings of Democrats in the lap of Republicans. It’s subterfuge – without the cooperation of Democrats, filibuster would not be a problem.

          Then there is FJRA, the ultimate betrayal and attempt to complete the job Conrad Burns set out to do years ago. He is stymied by a good man, Jeff Bingaman, and so has spent the better part of his first term trying to attach this foul bill to other legislation, bypassing the rigorous vetting an industry-written bill like this deserves. .

          You might point to his voting record, liking this or that, as this is about as substantial as public discourse about an office holder ever gets. But that means nothing, as Matt pointed out elsewhere – bills are often nothing more than perception vehicles,mand voting records are for public consumption. There is little meaning, since most legislation dies, most votes don’t turn an issue, and votes are really only the limited public interface that a senator has to,worry about. Media certainly doesn’t burrow, as Pat Williams pointed out on leaving office, allowing them the freedom to do just about any mischief hey please without scrutiny.

          There’s more, but I’ll stop. It’s a simple fact of life that a man cannot accept bribes from private concentrated wealth, and then work against that wealth. You’re deluding yourself if you think otherwise, but then I am the delusional one,, right?

          1. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

            Pat Williams is your hero, Buttinski? Hell, the dude quit when the going got tough. Nuff said. Guess that’s why you like the dude. He stuck to his principles, his ideals. He FLED THE FIELD rather than participate in the battle he didn’t like.

            Sorry, Buttinski, but I don’t have much use for a guy that runs away when things get tough. Guess that’s why you don’t vote. You fled the voting field ’cause you don’t like any of the candidates. Well, like they say, you no vote, you no bitch!

            You see, Buttinski, the people I know fight right up until the day they die! Hell, I’ve known many, many folks here in GF over the years who fought during the thirties, and THEN continued to fight from the friggin’ NURSING homes where they lived! Right UP until the day they died! Betty Dimunovich comes to mind! She was a socialist right up to the end! She used to give me her copies of the socialist newspaper when she was through with them.

            I simply don’t like quitters, nor do I like to be around them. They make me ill! YOU make me ill, little fella. All you do is bitch! The rightwing simply LOVES little whiners like you who have left the field of battle!

            1. Mark Tokarski

              Where did I say I was a Williams fan? He merely stated the obvious, that we don’t have a “burrowing press”, and only on leaving office, not while in.

              The circumstances of his departure are curious too – right in the middle of a campaign and with a war chest in hand. I wonder if he was bagged – threatened in private with a scandal (hey are all vulnerable, since their phones are tapped and behaviors scrutinized) and told to quit or be exposed. Did he have a girlfriend? Had he taken a bribe or done some cocain?

              At any rate, he was rewarded with a lifetime pension and a cushy job for which he had no qualifitons on leaving.

              Soemthing’s smells. But while in office, he was an effective voice for wilderness and wild lands. He did make enemies in that manner. Tester has not.

          2. Rob Kailey

            Several things:

            Tokarski:

            If I say something about Tester you don’t like I am a “liar.”

            No, we have a pretty good foundation to think you a liar, regardless of what you claim about Tester.

            There is only evidence for something, evidence against, and a harsh, unsatisfying world of gray.

            No wonder your friends commit suicide. I got over my emo phase in high school, Mark. Since then, I’ve found a remarkable amount of satisfying color to the world. As I’ve pointed out to you many times, you mistake what you see for what everyone else sees, and then rail against that very delusion.

            My evidence: he’s done nothing for progressive causes.

            Translation: ‘Tester has done nothing that I see as what I want.’ Mark, your list is full of lies. Jon Tester has participated in many public forums, as well as private forums, with groups that agree and disagree with him. He attended a business growth seminar right here at MSU, hosted by MSU and the Bozeman Chamber of Commerce (which had already de facto endorsed his presumptive opponent, Steve Daines, before Daines tucked his tail and bowed out for Dennis.) Don’t you remember that little dust up I had with problembear because Tester was meeting with Montana Women Vote and only doing so for an hour? Yeah, that was an organization that was angry with him, and he didn’t avoid them as you claim. This list could go on for pages, but I know it won’t have an impact on your circular reasoning, so lets get right to the heart of it, shall we?

            You missed the point completely because of your Narcissistic circular reasoning. I’d like to think that like Max Bucks, you’re simply dancing around the issues to keep the trolling alive. But sadly, I’m convinced that despite your super-genius 168 IQ you’re really just very stupid. You have been asked to show, exhibit, demonstrate or prove that Jon Tester is a right winger. So far, you’ve done nothing of the sort, save wail that he doesn’t agree with “us”. Much more to the point, you’ve been asked by me to give evidence of Jon Tester’s progressive betrayal. So far all you have isn’t doing what you want, and he called you an extremist. (He really didn’t, kitten. You’re really kind of nothing in the debate, environmental or otherwise. You’re just seeking importance by collecting an important enemy who has no reason to care that you even exist.)

            That’s your circular reasoning, Mark. In your mind, you are a progressive and Jon Tester has disappointed you. You feel betrayed. Therefore, Jon Tester has betrayed progressives and any who are not disappointed are not progressives. That isn’t how critical thought works, kitten. The point is not ‘what has Jon Tester done that pleases you’. The point is, ‘what did he promise to progressives that he has done the opposite?’. The drama queen and Paul Richards have their tale of the backroom deal struck between the enviro-mafia and Tester. Then those forces, 1200 strong, single-handedly got Tester elected, only to be betrayed by the FJRA. Now THAT’S a story of betrayal. What is your story, Mark? You weren’t at that patchouli smoke fueled backroom deal; you’re not that damned important. A lie you’ve told so easily that you can’t even examine it anymore is that the FJRA is just Conrad Burns in Democratic drag. Not once, ever, have you shown your “evidence” for such a thing. So, what’s your story of betrayal, kitten? Now that we understand that betrayal means a deliberate denial of promises ‘honorably given’, I ask, even yet again, how has Jon Tester “betrayed” progressives? You’ll still have no answer, I’m certain.

            Here’s a few truths that might help you in your quest for being a ‘critical thinker’. 1) The words others use have significance beyond your delusions. You might want to pay attention to those words, not just how they serve your attempts at trolling. 2) Your circular reasoning is failing you more and more. You might want to rethink that as a strategy. 3) “Progressives” didn’t get Jon Tester elected, as much as they want to think they did. Montanans elected Jon Tester. He has no onus to serve your clique, but rather the state. Given his approval numbers and your lies in attempting to undercut those, I think most of your caterwauling is simply to sew dissent. 4) You aren’t as smart or important as you think you are, Tokarski.

            Given your new found fascination w3ith “evil”, you might want to reread Othello sometime, Iago.

  8. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    “why organizing outside of electoral politics is the only answer to our current malaise.”

    How’d that Nader v. Gore thingy work out for ya? bwwhahahahahahahahahahah!

    I think it worked out just fine for the military industrial complex, but not so nice for the hundreds of thousands of innocents who died, and the bankrupting of our country!

    But you keep dreaming, little fella. Keep the dream alive! You’re the white MLK! Keep hope alive. And in the meantime, while your ideal purity is intact, keep putting into office every nazi you can find!

    1. Mark Tokarski

      Larry, you have he benefit of living without burden of proof. You are saying here that Gore wold have acted differently than Bush, but what, pray tell, in his campaigning, leads you to that conclusion? Bush and Gore differed on very little. Just as Obama and Romney now virtually mirror each other.

      You’ll avoid answering here, as is your wont, but let me ask you anyway: Concentrated wealth leads to concentrated political power. The people who find it easy to slide into office are those who recognize where the power is and do not buck it. They are third rate people, servants of power. What on earth makes you think that a man who amassed a great war chest of money from private wealth, Gore, was going to buck it?

      You’re circling a startling insight hear, and strong people face this fact and are not deterred: The two-party system, financed by private wealth, cannot, by definition, serve common interests. We have to work against that system. That is not new. hat is the history of the republic. Everything we have came about because of struggle and in spite of, not because of, party politics.

      That it is hard, daunting, frustrating … Strong people, like Nader, understand this, take mountains of abuse from fools lke you, and keep on working.

  9. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

    Heres a question for you??? Why would Rehberg vote yes on 9 amendments of CISPA including Research and Development funds to start CISPA, a day after he voted no on the House finished CISPA bill????

    Would you say he was covering his ASS in the media????? I would! God I hope our senators are not this stupid! I know the president said he would veto this bill!

    This is Big Government intrusion into our private lives on the internet! “CISPA is as anti-American, anti Montanan as it gets. It sanctions spying on the entire U.S. population under the pretext of keeping us secure from electronic attacks originating from cybercriminals, foreign governments and terrorists,”

    Another thing I find disturbing is that Facebook and Verizon are for this bill also! Guess I will be pulling the plug on Facebook soon, and staying with google +

    Then I guess we do have a couple of super packs in this state, and they heavily contributed to Gingrich and Paul, not Romney! Tell me that doesn’t scare you,

  10. MxBx1

    Trotsky: All you had to do was simply state that a wedge issue advertisement is prima facie proof that the candidate is inherently dishonest.

    YoursMaxBucks

    PS: I cannot help you anymore in dealing with these hopeless simpletons, as I gave up interest in politics years ago and moved on to more productive things.

    1. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

      Buh BYE, Butts! bwhwhwhahahahahaa! Do write if you EVER do anything of consequence, cupcake! I’ll miss you. You’re a funny little dude!

      1. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Complementing yourself again, Buttinski? Now that’s pretty sad, dude. Pathetic really.

      2. Rob Kailey

        Uhhh, Mark? Max just clarified that you did indeed call Strohmeier a liar, just not as succinctly as Max would have had you do. Did you even understand what he wrote?

        So, yup, I’m laughing at you again.

  11. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

    Larry,

    Mark Cant be complementing himself. The mans too pendejo to understand the word “Leave,” said to him a hundred times here.

    That means he isn’t bright enough to pat himself on the back either! No courage to be truthful either…. he lives two states away in Colorado while he makes all of his profane comments about Montana liberals, without proof, outside his own conspiratorial, and flawed logic. Which means he probably trolled himself right out of Montana years ago…..

    He’s a Spineless little man, drugged on his own big ego, Egotism is the anesthetic that dulls the pain of how stupid he really is.

    1. Mark Tokarski

      It’s a public forum and invites controversy, meaning that opposing views are encouraged.

      By that notion, what right do you or anyone have to tell me to leave? I will only do so if asked to by the administrators.

      BTW, I am 6′, 213 pounds, an avid outdoorsman, muscular and fit. My hat size is 7-3/4. I am not a “little man.”

      I have spoken out against people in public who know my name and address, and who find such behavior intolerable. I refuse to seek out forums where all are in agreement. I was a resident of Montana longer than you have been alive. We have business interests and property there.

      I am sorry, Norma, if you do not like my attitudes and ideas. Back in 1995 I was at a farm owned by my then-girlfriend’s parents. They were shearing that day and I snapped a photo of sheep headed up a ramp and into a semi truck. I still have that photo on display in my office. Under it is the caption “Don’t forget to vote today.”

      1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

        WOOOooo! by the way I’m not afraid of your size Mark…. how often do you think you can intimidate me? Bwah hahahahahaha!!!!! Height and weight means nothing, if the brain, like yours is too small to function properly! Remember I didn’t deal with a girlfriend whose family had had sheep. I dealt directly with Horses and cattle, that I owned…. Greenhorn!

  12. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

    Your not an opposing view, you come here only to muddy the waters……. That makes you a Propagandist, not an honest dissenter.

    See, we have watched you twist and turn the screws here against others just to foul up the conversation…. not to bring light to a problem, or discuss a solution! There is no Honesty in your conversation. you bring no proof with your convictions…….. your just a troll!

    1. Norma Duffy AKA ILIKEWOODS

      Let me tell you a little story Mark. During certain days of the year in horseracing circuits, we have racehorse sales on off racing months. Usually they are for babys, and my job as a sale company foreman was to take these yearlings and make them leadable and presentable within a week of two of the sale itself.

      Some of these 400 pound babies had never been handled by people before. One of the farms, I trained for would send me a cattle truck full of the little fellers, so I would open the back doors of the trailer onto a ramp into a nice sized fenced off area, go get a cup of coffee and wait for the little guys to disembark at there leasure!

      As I was going around talking to people who gathered around the pen, who wanted to work for me, other good hands who had worked for me before, would jump in and I would add them to the crew……

      There were always guys like you, that didn’t want to wait around… they always figured they could herd the the little babies off the trailer, by climbing in and pushing them out…. who thought he was a real cowboy!

      Twenty baby horses, who had never been a part of humans in the past, chased into a cattle trailer, and trucked 300 miles away from their home, scared to death, and pressed against the front of the trailer, away from the open doors………. and an idiot like you, a friggin greenhorn, is gonna show all us veterans, what to do.

      You jump in the back, of the trailer and move towards the group of baby horses… your talking to them in sweet little tones, while inching forward as they flatten against each other on the back wall…….. just as you reach out to get the first one, to separate it from the rest…. they all stampede over you, leaving you face down, and twisted in the manure!

      A roar of laughter can be heard as the babies finding themselves outside have room to run in the sunshine and shavings of the paddock. Little horses getting out the last of pent up energy and being frightened for the last 4 hours….. bucking and jumping, striking at shadows like boxing kangaroos.

      Two people, finally lift you out of the urine and manure, and drag your sore body out of the trailer, and hump your broken body over the fence… they hold you up to face me… and I poke a hundred dollars in your pocket, and thank you for the show…. then tell you to get the hell away from my barn before you hurt somebody.

      See, you weren’t hired yet, and you didn’t heed people warning you, not to go in that trailer. The broken ribs, your extreme pain, is all on you, and you thinking I would hire you, cuz you thought you were that good a cowboy!

      Frankly, your embarrassing to the cowboy creed!

      And Ya I got a couple of pictures of Idiots just like you Limping away, with the wet spot in your crotch area, or the brownspot on your bum!

  13. Michael Searalika

    Ha ha ha, Mark forgot to give his putter and ball size. let alone the burn size of the fire in his belly….. Just saying!

    Honestly Mark, let me tell you a little story on how Norma became my Stepmom. Why she raised me as a single mom in the first place.

    My dad had PSD bad after His stint in the army… violence issues! As a veteran, he couldn’t get in to see a psychologist, the waiting time to get in to see a health professional at that time in L.A., was almost half a year, his drinking problems kept him from making the appointments.

    My real mom left soon after he came home, left me, fled to save herself….

    Norma met my dad in a bar, while celebrating a win with one of her horses that night! He was showing her, his best behavior, she didn’t know what she was getting into.

    A few months passed, and they seem to be getting along, but my father never reached out to me, Norma did but I wasn’t listening,I was an 13 year old asshole, a delinquent in school, and a roving graffiti artist at night.

    One night the cops brought me home, and my dad was pretty drunk. since they called Norma as well, she meet with the police at the house, she did all the talking to the officers …..my dad, just stared at me, while Norma promised the police the issue would be resolved!

    When the police left, Dad started beating me. Were not talking a spanking here, we are talking a beating! It wasn’t the my first, but it was quickly escalating to the most severe I ever got….. The reason I didn’t want to go to school the next day, after angering my father, The reason I was a delinquent, was because my face was swollen and bruised many times before, and in my scared and fearful honor…. in just being a kid, and not wanting to end up being in the foster-care system ….. I didn’t know any better either…. how troubled my dad was.

    Norma stepped in the middle of that beating! My father is/was taller then you Mark, still a battle ready grunt of the army, and she took every blow I was supposed to get that night.

    I really believe the beating she took would have killed me. Yet, she still got away, packed my clothes and drove me to her place that night. She went to work, the next day, and stayed long enough to tell her crew what to do, and was never ashamed of the bruises she got defending me, and she never let it slow her down.

    Dad never went looking for me, I have no intentions to look for him, and I know he wouldn’t ever come looking for Norma again either after that night.

    You don’t know how hard Norma will fight for things she cares for…. I do!

    That night turned my life around. I never disappointed her again. I graduated on top of my classes in everything I did, because someone cared for me.

    Listening to you, just reminds me of that night! You are not all that different then the Monster inside my father… and your just as sad!

    Ill be twenty nine in June, I am 6’4″ 270 pounds, a Marine Sargent…..

    Anytime “Princess Mark” you want to intimidate a good American woman….. you’ll have to go through me!

  14. Edd

    You all seem to have so much fun trying to denigrate each other, and one-uping the next responder, that the thread loses it’s focus. Wouldn’t it serve the purpose of this blog better if everyone simply stated their position, and then let other readers make up their own mind about who might be on track and who might be a blithering idiot?

    1. Havre Voter

      I don’t know, maybe there is a kernel of something in there, but it sure is hard to determine what. I would say this is not good. Plus you’re basically saying Baucus created Steve Daines.

    1. Havre Voter

      While I believe Margolis is a nice person, how can you criticize Bullock for over a constitutional amendment. Governor’s don’t have the power to change the constitution. Even if they did, he’s supposed to say he wants to overturn the will of the voters? Then he’s no better than Jeff Essmann.

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