When the Romney Campaign Knocks, What Will It Look Like?

I keep thinking of an incident in Whitefish in 2010, when a burly guy with long white hair, tattoos and a mullet showed up at a female voter’s house with a gun on his belt and holding a clipboard.  The woman called the police. The guy left.  It was later discovered that the guy meant no harm.  He was simply a canvasser, canvassing for the GOP.

Is this what the Romney campaign will look like when it knocks on your door? And can such a fighting force compete with the Obama legions of young and progressive volunteers?

Much is made of the Obama campaign’s famous use of technology and its massive, high tech organizing methods.  But it is all rooted in an abundance of young, enthusiastic volunteers.  They are the soldiers in the largest ground attack in the history of American politics in 2008, and though there’s plenty of talk of less enthusiasm in 2012, the fighting force, if smaller and slightly less enthusiastic, is still composed of certain basic types of people that the GOP does not have.   Sure, Obama’s troops are not exactly average Americans. They are pretty liberal, sometimes very much out there.  But they are closer to normal than Tea Party activists.  And they are numerous, energetic, easily summoned, in love with Obama, and tech savvy.

Who are the Romney soldiers?  Youths? Conservative young equivalents of Obama’s progressive soldiers?  No way.  Young voters are liberal nowadays.  No such Romney army exists.

Frighteningly, Romney’s ground game, his fighting force, will be Tea Partiers.  Older men, angry and on the fringe of society, conspiracy-theory minded, gun-wearing, Sasquatch hunters.  Can such an army win a war?

It’s a huge problem for Romney.  Even if he can find a way to motivate these citizens to walk neighborhoods for him (and it is unlikely that he can), will they be up to the task?  Will they be able to operate the handheld devices that are now required for instantaneous information upload to campaign headquarters (standard gear among progressive organizers).  Will they be able to behave appropriately at the door, and come across as at least marginally normal?  Will they provide energy? Can they transmit enthusiasm? Can they be cool?  And what such wing-nuts, who worship Glenn Beck and Sean Hannity, will be able to knock on a door of a Latino voter and say, “Si, se puede!”?

That small incident in Whitefish has also played out on a much bigger stage in Montana. The Koch brothers have repeatedly failed to find a normal person, an organizer, to lead the Montana chapter of their national group, Americans for Prosperity (AFP).  The current leader, just hired, looks like a confederate general, and wrote a book about how gays, the UN, and non-christians are leading America toward an armageddon. The previous leader of AFP, had been a senior member of a cult that built a $30 million underground bunker to prepare for the end of the world, which they believed would occur on April 23, 1990.  The state Tea Party hasn’t done much better than the Kochs.    One of the many leaders they’ve cycled through was showing up to legislative hearings dressed like a biker, with a bandanna on his head, jeans and a leather jacket, and posted violent rhetoric against gays on his Facebook page.  He actually got kicked out of a local Tea Party group for being too right-wing, if you can believe it.

Compare this crew to the young women and men who have volunteered and organized in Montana for Obama. They have had graduate degrees, have worked in national organizations around the country, and possess a worldly view.

Meanwhile, Obama is plucking Silicon Valley start-up types to run the technology center of his campaign.  Few such young, talented tech wizards have any desire to be a part of a Republican Presidential campaign, and so the pool of talent is very shallow for Romney.  Even with the enthusiasm deficit that Obama is in relative to 2008, I do not believe Romney will be able to mount a ground game to compete.  Romney’s deficit is greater, a deficit of youth, of soldiers, of tech talent.  A ground war is won with soldiers, not imbeciles.


123 Comments on "When the Romney Campaign Knocks, What Will It Look Like?"

  1. Romney’s first act as president is probably going to be to make it illegal for women to hold government offices. His religion does not allow women to hold church offices.

  2. If a TEA Bagger comes to your door for Romney, just hold up a book. It works like a crucifix on vampires.

  3. Drunks for Denny | June 19, 2012 2:14 PM at 2:14 PM |

    I dunno about Mittens, but when I come to your door urging your vote for Denny, I will be holding an 18-pack of Busch Light, and will be offering you one.

  4. Thanks to that spiffy new “stand your ground” extension to the Castle Doctrine, any armed pollster coming into your dooryard can probably be put out of his misery with no questions asked.

  5. Perhaps Bozeman Democrat Rachel Vaughn will canvas for Tester and Obama. Seems she made quite a spectacle of herself at the debate: http://dailycaller.com/2012/06/19/dem-activist-slugs-gop-congressmans-wife-with-campaign-sign/

  6. Gosh, The Daily Caller? Are you kidding?

    • Is jhwygirl kidding too: http://4and20blackbirds.wordpress.com/2012/06/17/always-a-class-act/#comment-88436

      The fact is that Mrs. Rehberg was assaulted (the term may technically be battery) by a supporter of the Democratic party. That supporter was drunk and had spend significant time during the debate yelling out at Rehberg (ironically, the day after the president was interrupted on the lawn of the white house.) If we’re going to call out Mr. Outhouse here for being obscene and disgusting and as being representative of the GOP, then Democrats better damned well be open to accepting the same description for their own people that don’t ascribe to the basic tenants of common decency.

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | June 19, 2012 7:44 PM at 7:44 PM |

        Couple’a points, Craig. I see by the picture that Dopey’s full-time bodyguard, Randy Vogel, was right there at Dopey’s side during the “incident”. I can’t believe that any kind of assualt took place with him in attendance. Nope. Does not compute. Remember, that THIS is the same Vogel who PUNCHED a guy in the face in Missoula when he got too mouthy with Dopey.

        Second, with dustin hurst now running the show, I find it damn hard to believe that this incident was NOT some kind of publicity stunt. Sure seems like it was.

        Thirdly, I seriously doubt that the woman doing the alleged assualting is from the Montana Dem side! Does anyone from the Bozeman area even KNOW this rachel vaugn person? She admits that she is recently arrived in Montana from somewhere else. So, what’s the skinny on this ninny?

        Sorry, but I’m not buyin’ any of it. It’s got hurst fingerprints all OVER the story!

        BTW, kudos to the Pubbie leadership for distancing themselves from the outhouse guy. That was a good move.

        • Larry, take it up with jhwygirl. She also wrote in the same comment:

          In other words – do you really want the details? I can give you her name. I have it.

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | June 19, 2012 10:03 PM at 10:03 PM |

            Oh my GOD! Not Lee Greenturd’s hit too! Craig, you’re so right. What’s WRONG with this country when little minority kids can’t even sing the stupidest little nazi song in history?? Thank GOD the Daily Crapper is on it!


            BTW, Craig, the Daily Crapper is EGGSACKLY like the AFA “family” radio channel, only with pics. All horsehit! But HEY, this is what passes for news for you folks. And that’s real said. Your party is alREADY loaded with every moron out there. Do you REALLY think that you can actually CREATE converts with even MORE dumb shit?? I don’t.

          • Jesus I think Craigs got a thing Jhwygirl, and hes asking you Larry to take a love note to her cuz he’s too shy. Or maybe he just likes stirring his own crap…. Hard too tell.

            Craig a lot of people respect the J girl go somewhere else with your cooking please.

            • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | June 20, 2012 5:22 AM at 5:22 AM |

              Problem is that I’ve been to countless debates, and I have NEVER seen/heard a “drunken heckler” for EITHER side at one of these things. Again, this don’t pass the smell test. Hell, I’ve never even seen anyone DRUNK at a debate! Sumthin’ don’t smell right here. Dude comes here from Idaho, a dude who’s alREADY proven himself to be a liar, and suddenly, lo and behold, he finds a drunken heckler???? What luck, right?! Methinks that dustin is TRYING too hard again by fabricating! Some people call it flatassed LYING!

              • Drunks for Denny | June 20, 2012 9:06 AM at 9:06 AM |

                LYING is what President Obama does when he tells my man Denny that he isn’t sending drones to spy on Montana’s farmers and ranchers. Alex Jones know better!

                • Oh, c’mon now. you’re the “Cowgirl”‘ right? Hiding it in your little boiler room, dropping in on your own threads, choosing incendiary and cute little names for yourself, advancing the dialogue.

              • Larry, NBC reported it too. Are they also liars?

              • Larry the GOP have Party Party’s every year and No ones ever gotten out of Line. In Fact we had a major GOP person and an Independent at Democratic meeting and we treated them like gold. We even had GOP trackers there. Really. Your right, I never heard of it either.

                Secondly, Robs right no one can get close to Denny and his wife, since he hired his bodyguards, except in DC, so how did it the incident happen? Don’t know myself but it does sound staged.

                Why is it trackers never bother us Democrats( except for our President), but the GOP kick them Out of their convention. Whatever happened to transparency.

                It doesn’t bode well for me… even though I am not the prettiest, or smartest person out there… I don’t mind being filmed by the opposition, when I speak. I believe in my determination to help this state, and my honesty.

                This story about, kicking out Dems, Floating a outhouse on wheels around, pushing people out that don’t agree with them…makes me want to know what there hiding, or if they really want to follow the new Platform they have….

              • Larry, you are a smart guy even if you try and hide it. The point of my comments:

                Cowgirl wrote an inflammatory piece attempting to paint R’s as burly guys with long white hair, tattoos and mullets with a gun on their belts and contrast that with exuberant, energetic hope and change youth who canvas for D’s. Both Democrat Rachel Vaughn, who made a spectacle of herself at the debate and reported to have attacked Mrs. Rehberg, and Cowgirl’s “burly guy” are not representative of either political party such that they are the poster image. However, to the extent that liberties are taken to distort the true image, as Cowgirl has done, then what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. The pretense that D’s don’t have Rachel Vaughns embarrassing their party is laughable. The pretense that R’s don’t have youthful, involved supporters is also laughable.

  7. I think it will look white and male. And rich.

    • No earth hater can vet: expect some white guy from south dakota with fewest keys to emperor’s club to erect, er, emerge as veep candidate (ps, no: he won’t resign from the senate)


  8. Huh?

    And can such a fighting force compete with the Obama legions of young and progressive volunteers?

    Dammit would you please put the word “progressive” on the shelf? You’re poaching. Obama and you are no more progrsssive than Bush. Obama has unabashedly advanced the Bush agenda. Unless his volunteers eschew his wars, drones, murders, tax cuts for the wealthy, chains held by insurance companies, spying, torture, punishment of whistle blowers and coddling of Wall Street execs, it’s a safe bet that they and you are nothing more than right wingers who are a little more self-aggrandized , what with your graduate degrees and better-than-them demeanor.

    You are them! You are as blind as ignorant. What hubris!

  9. Are you kidding me? | June 20, 2012 7:36 PM at 7:36 PM |

    Mrs. Rehberg hasn’t been in the same room with Drunken Denny in years…Really…how much did that cost him to get her to show up at the “debate” …..?

    She stays home…all the time…while he takes boat rides on flathead lake and and then she comes to take him out of the hospital….That was expensive for him.

    Maybe she gets a Tiffany’s credit card? You know like the Great GOP speaker extrodinare’s wife—-Mrs Knuttty Knute. A little gold and sparkle can apparently forgive alot of Publicon BS

  10. ThinkFirstThenVote | June 20, 2012 11:30 PM at 11:30 PM |

    Actually, I would bet that a lot of Romney’s ground game is going to look fresh and clean-cut — because the Mormons are loyal and are going to be out in force for him everywhere — but I’m pretty sure they’re not going to advertise their faith, they’re just going to pretend they’re your average American.

    They do believe in the White Horse prophecy and that Romney’s the one. I asked my Mormon sister-in-law about it and yes — they do believe.


    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | June 21, 2012 7:15 AM at 7:15 AM |

      “Romney avoids mentioning it, but Joseph Smith ran for president in 1844 as an independent commander in chief of an “army of God” advocating the overthrow of the U.S. government in favor of a Mormon-ruled theocracy. Challenging Democrat James Polk and Whig Henry Clay, Smith prophesied that if the U.S. Congress did not accede to his demands that “they shall be broken up as a government and God shall damn them.” Smith viewed capturing the presidency as part of the mission of the church.”

      Poor Joey, he lost at the ballot box AND the cartridge box!

      • Larry if you are going to bring religion into this contest and play the guilt by association card, then Obama is exposed for being an ardent follower of “goddamn America” Rev. Wright.

        Rev. Wright is a contemporary of Obama. 1844 is a little before Romney’s time.

  11. As to the larger question regarding what Romney’s campaign will look like, perhaps the chairman of the Business Roundtable gives a clue: http://blogs.marketwatch.com/election/2012/06/20/boeing-ceo-says-u-s-regulatory-climate-worse-than-ever/

    Boeing CEO Jim McNerney on Wednesday said U.S. companies face more regulatory barriers to growth than at any time in his long career as a businessman.

    The 62-year-old McNerney, also chairman of the Business Roundtable, said regulatory agencies have crafted a host of new rules and enforced them more aggressively than prior administrations. He said regulators often take a hostile approach to business and that the prevailing attitude is companies “are guilty until proven innocent.”

    McNerney made his remarks during the Business Roundtable’s presentation of its latest quarterly survey of top U.S. executives. CEOs say they plan to spend and hire less in the next six months than they previously expected. CEOs less optimistic about U.S. economy.

    Asked by a reporter if regulations are any worse now than in decades past, McNerney gave an emphatic yes. “It’s different today. The attitude is different,” he said. “Unless you live it it’s hard to see it.”

    McNerney said the Roundtable “hears about it all day long” from member companies. The group represents large U.S. firms that employ more than 14 million people and generate sales in excess of $6 trillion a year…

    Presumably McNerney has made the same complaints to President Obama. After all, McNerney is a member of the president’s advisory council on American jobs and competitiveness. The president even visited a Boeing plant in Washington state early this year to deliver a speech.

    McNerney has become increasingly critical of Washington. Several months ago, McNerney lamented the lack of business experience in the Obama White House specifically and Congress in general.

  12. Kenneth, perhaps in your zeal to go off the cliff with a personal attack, you missed the facts:

    +The Business Roundtable members employee 14M people.

    +The BR receives input regularly from member companies.

    + The chairman of the BR is not merely expressing his own opinion, but the collective input of it’s members.

    +The chairman of the BR sits on Obama’s council of American jobs and competitiveness.

    +The chairman of the BR finds a lack of business experience in Obama’s WH.

    You make the fatal assumption that the chairman of the BR speaks only for himself and not his membership and their collective opinion regarding the regulatory environment. See the BR’s latest CEO Economic Outlook Survey report.

    As to the larger question as to what the Romney campaign will look like when it comes calling, perhaps it won’t be the burly, looming, pony tailed individual with a gun strapped to his waist, that image could almost be you, but rather a businessperson from the local chamber of commerce.

    As an aside, I’m not sure why you want to make it personal between us. Have I offended you?

    • Craig can you tell me why all those companies are already sitting on Trillions of dollars….. doing nothing with it to elevate the ecomony, While crying their broke, or they need a hand with less regulation. Are you gonna hell me the hand job they give the American People doesn’t come with Vaseline.

      They are sitting on trillions for a reason, and the reason is this: there Lying!

      • Norma, actually it’s uncertainty over Washington policies and direction regarding budget sequestration and taxes. Just don’t want to commit without knowing a more defined government direction. That’s what the CEO’s are saying.

        • All that Uncertainty? Really? All they have to do is pick a newspaper and they can see they they are the problem. They Don’t chip in, they don’t say How can we help? That all a lie Craig, you have been sold a bill of goods.

          As long as the Middle class have No Money to buy products. Those bastards will sit on the money or invest overseas.

          You Have been Played, while the CEOS enjoy their golf game.

          • Really, in the minds of those that matter. They will not commit as they view the US approach a “fiscal cliff.” https://mninews.deutsche-boerse.com/index.php/us-business-roundtablefiscal-uncertainty-biggest-drag-econ?q=content/us-business-roundtablefiscal-uncertainty-biggest-drag-econ

            “I think the regulatory tax and budget environment is not clear and I do know of some companies who are holding back for some clarity,” he added.

            McNerney said the sovereign debt situation in Europe and an economic slowdown in Asia are both concerns, but less so than the “so-called fiscal cliff” in the United States/…

            In a press conference Wednesday, Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke said the Fed also believes the clouded outlook for fiscal policy will be a drag on the economy.

            “Moving forward in the year, we anticipate that the uncertainty associated with the so-called fiscal cliff will have some economic effects,” Bernanke said.

            McNerney continued, saying “the cold-eyed view is that there will be paralysis” on Congress coming to an agreement on tax policy, adding he believes members would rather see Congress come up with an imperfect resolution sooner rather than a perfect situation later.

            Until there is a budget, everything else is just blather.

          • A defining characteristic of a corporate CEO is rarely if ever altruism. Nor are they known for telling the press ‘the truth’. Their job is to favor the shareholders, and they do that by sitting on money until they get a business climate that favors themselves. They get that by not hiring until Rmoney takes the big chair in the White Building.

            I suggest that railing at Craig for presenting what is, as you point out, obvious doesn’t help any situation at all. There is no evidence that Craig has ‘bought the lie’ because it doesn’t appear that business people are lying. They want an environment that is business friendly (which means more outsourcing, less environmental regs and fewer legal protections for unions.) It seems the helpful response would be to point out the consequences of what they want, rather than jumping up and down because they aren’t doing what you want. Helping the middle and lower classes isn’t their job. Making money for their shareholders is. Craig is correct about that much.

            • Their is no Market if there is no Buyers…. Giving Business what they want will not make it better if no one can buy their products! Too simple?? No, Too true? Yes!

              Innovation, bringing in manufacturing, Going around the status Quo of Business who won’t hire because Obama is President… that should be the knew norm.

              • Business who won’t hire because Obama is President

                Nonsense. Business is largely apolitical. Business cares about certainty of policy and an environment conducive to capital investment where a profit can be earned. In the last election Wall Street money went heavy for Obama. This time around his chances are questionable. His ability to earn Business’ trust with only a few months to go is practically nil. There is a price paid for painting Business as inherently evil rather than working towards solutions to improve the economy in a way Business is allowed to prosper.

                • Then businesses are holding our entire economic system hostage so that they can choose who our next President will be… is this the way you want it be, Craig? Do you think this is right?

                  Personally, I think the President should be chosen by the voters of the United States – free of extortion by Corporations.

                • Craig, I have to disagree with you and you, yourself, point out why. You claim:

                  Business is largely apolitical.

                  Really? You are the one who pointed out that political uncertainty was driving business decision, and now you want people to believe that business is ‘apolitical’? That’s a pants-on-fire bunch of BS.

                  • Rob, what I meant is that business is not political ideological. It chooses sides R or D that favors them. It chooses sides R or D that establishes the “house rules” of certainty so business can make intelligent capital investments.

                    • My only disagreement with that characterization is that businesses make “intelligent” capitol investments. If they did, JP Morgan wouldn’t have gambled $2 billion of people’s money. Oh wait … they knew the people wouldn’t have a single say in what they did, so I guess it was intelligent, wasn’t it? By all means, let’s cut regulation to ‘business’, and see what they gamble on next …

                    • Rob, someone within JP Morgan was gambling. It was not a capital investment with a view for the future.

              • Norma, you are a politician running for office. Would you please, for the love of Dog, hire an editor?

                • Sorry in my attempt to be a real Human being, a realist, and a person who sometimes makes spelling blunders…. I didn’t know that to spell out what wrong with the world from my point of View, needed an editor to come to your level Rob?

                  See, that’s the problem with people here, who think they are the Professional Left…. or right. First, they think anyone who campaigns has a wad of Money. Not true! Right now I am caring for my mother. How much do you think that raises in a Paycheck?

                  Second, some think as commenters on the number one blog in Montana, they are the at the same Level as MSNBC, or Fox news when they speak…. They are not. Your Opinions are Your Opinions, and Mine are Mine….. I need no editor to clear up my spelling,cause I am typing from the heart and Mind. Polishing a regular person, is of course Possible, but the effect here is only conversation. not your Blog, nor mine. so take your English lessons back to your own neck of the woods.

                  I can thoroughly agree, I am not a polished person. That’s the Point isn’t it? Because real People don’t walk around with an editor in their pocket. I am speaking off the Cuff here. No need for your kind of preference, Conversation is first draft Material, always has been.

                  My English classes have always been A’s and B’s but I am a ten draft wizard. Always have been, Always will be. I have too work 3 times as hard to be as good as the 3.56 Percentage in class. But this isn’t class is it Rob, Its just a conversation…. So honestly let me tell you what I think of your….. I am better then you Editor statement.

                  Fuck Off!

                  Get a life Rob, I am not your enemy here…. just a person with an Opinion!

                  • No, you are not my enemy, until you decided you were such. I don’t need to “fuck off”. I’m not running for anything. I don’t need votes. You do. I have a life, and you have a campaign. Sway people however you think you must. Your choice, of course.

                    • Ah See Now, Your feelings are Hurt. But, You were never thinking about mine when you opened your trap did you?

                      I’ll get the votes I deserve because I am honest enough for some people and maybe not because I am too coarse for others!

                      This isn’t a beauty contest Rob, Its Keeping this state on course. building a future for our children and keeping our Nature Pristine While doing it.

                      I’m not the damsel in the room of politics, but the ugly old hag who seen a thing or two, and knows what a carpe- bagging son of a corporate tool is….

                      Playing Politics is whats nasty, I am not here to play, I am here for my constituents. I’m here for the grown ups!

                    • No, Norma. I wasn’t thinking of your feelings, nor of mine. I was thinking of your campaign, in the hopes that you might actually run one.

                      I’m certain that you’ll get the votes you deserve.

                    • Norma, what you are missing is that your “in your face” attitude, coupled with your hurt/aggreved attitude anytime someone says something you don’t like is an indication of what kind of legislator you will be. Rob doesn’t have a vote in your election but I certainly do. Telling my brother to “F&&& Off” is not going to win you my vote for sure and unlikely to ingratiate yourself to the other members of his extended family here in Dillon.

                      His comment was not meant as an attack and if you would lower your defensive BS shield for a moment, you would realise that. Whether you think it is important to appear to be lucid and profession is moot. What matters (as a candidate) is whether the people who you want to vote for you think you are.

                      You are in an uphill race (all your protestations aside). Wellborn is well respected and whether you believe it not is your own lookout. I have personally met the man and his wife and was impressed with both. Do I agree with every vote he made? Of course not. But I will tell you he did not try to snap my face off when I told him to his face how disappointed I was that he made them. This is a trick you really need to learn if you are serious about running to be a legislator.

                    • I like all of these far off observations…. But Tag teaming is a sport both of you tend to use only when you both feel threatened, or misunderstood. I am not hurting you. I’m disagreeing with you, and you both don’t like it. I cant be apologetic when I see I have done nothing wrong here, except speak my heart…..Just dont expect me to take all your explanations as gospel because your… Kaileys, anymore then you take mine.

                      I am a product of a mans world:
                      I never had the luxury as a woman in a mans professional world. I’m the one who usually stayed the extra hour without pay to make sure my work was always on par or better then my Male counterparts, because I would have been replaced by someones football buddy who couldn’t count to 100 if I didn’t.

                      Comradery for women means, we don’t usually poke like players eyes out when we get the chance…. sisterhood is a little more genteel then that, and I know the difference.

                      Democrats are not very much different then that sisterhood thing……. You guys didn’t seem to get that Memo on playing nice with the rest of the team, but you expect everyone else to play by your rules.

                      Life doesn’t work in your favor all the time…. Deal with it!

                      Lastly Welborn. I’m gonna give him the run of his life. And if I do it right, I win. If not, I will have tried my very best.

                    • 1) First you tell me what I am thinking “you both feel threatened, or misunderstood”. This is a mistake both because it pisses me off (you can’t possibly see into my head and therefore you have no idea what I am really thinking) and because you are completely wrong. I am neither threatened by you nor do I believe you are misunderstanding either me or my brother. It appears you are attacking us because my brother made the mistake of trying to help you. I responded because you told my brother to “F&&& Off”.

                      2) “I’m disagreeing with you, and you both don’t like it.” What a load of self serving crap. Let me make this perfectly clear. I don’t give a DAMN whether you disagree with me or not. I really don’t. It will affect whether I vote for you or whether I choose to use my resources to help you get elected in Dillon, but personally, it doesn’t effect me, myself and I one tiny little bit.

                      3) I never asked for nor expected an apology from you. In fact, I expected the responce you gave. This is why I gave up trying to help you get elected here a while ago. You are rapidly pushing me to actively work AGAINST you getting elected because you are pissing me off.

                      4) Next you misplay the woman card. Sorry, that cuts zero milage with me. I am a member of the Intel 100 hour club. Your whining about all the sacrifices you had to make as a woman doesn’t faze me and it makes you look whiney and petulant.

                      5) I have no idea who you are playing the “sisterhood” card for. Cowgirl maybe? “Look at me, I am being bullied by these two mean ugly men”. Grow the hell up. If you get elected (and I do mean IF…), you will have to deal with real people that very well may look down on you because you are a woman. Deal with it. Personally, I don’t give a damn if you are a woman, man, or pink elephant. My wife works damn hard too, but she has never played the “pity me because I am a woman” card.

                      6) As Rob has told you many times and as I have reminded you many time I AM NOT A DEMOCRAT. I was a Republican until my party went insane but I am still a fiscal conservative. Playing the Democrat card gets you exactly nowhere and tells me you really don’t listen to a damn thing anyone tells you. Not a good trait for a wannabe legislator.

                      7) Last but not least, you may think you are going to give Welborn a run for his money, but your chances are worse than McDonnald’s were of beating Rehberg. You are running for a position, held by a respected member of the community with a REALLY well respected wife in a community that is primarily old school conservative. Either you are delusional or you are playing politician with me. Neither will fish or cut bait. You will have to work hard and even if you do, you probably won’t win. That is reality. Deal with it. You certainly won’t win if you attack everyone that A) disagrees with you or B) tries to help you.

                    • Norma, for future reference, you might want to consider that accepting polite criticism from those friendly to your cause is exactly part of ‘trying your very best’.

                    • Gentlemen as I have said before. I have the right to disagree with you.

                      Mr. K. Kailey: go ahead and vote for Welborn if you like, it is Obvious to me you are for the following issues that Welborn tried to pass. So what your saying in reality is you are for the things he voted for… and will vote for him again.

                      1.I believe most Montanans don’t want their hunting permits Raised, like Wisconsin is doing now with 2 thousand dollar deer tags. Welborn did

                      2.Our fishing access to streams and waterways revoked, which is exactly what Welborn brought to the legislature last year.

                      3. Woman’s right to medical care revoked which Welborn voted for.

                      4.Money for charter schools but not public schools!

                      5. Changing our Montana constitution so Corporations can poison our air and waterways… yep Welborn was for that!

                      6.Discriminating against women on Insurance. yea he was for that too.

                      7. Voter ID laws, keeping students, disabled, and elderly from voting is one thing Jeff Welborn voted for as well

                      8. Giving tax breaks in this state to only those who make over 65,000 a year while the majority of Montanans who make 30,000 or less get the middle finger. Yep Jeff Welborn added his finger towards Montanans here as well!

                      9. Giving Tax breaks to the richest land owners in the state and saddling a bigger burden on the little property owner.

                      10 Killing renewable energy jobs in the state! that’s by the way the republican version of a Jobs bill.

                      Yep I might not spell like you want me too… in the conversational setting of a blog. Or disagree with you too much for me to be your Buddy, and because of that your willing to vote for a man who hasn’t done a thing for Montana but make its as bad as Jim Knox and Debbie Barrett want it to be.

                      You jump my reference of being a woman because I am a woman? Yet your willing to vote for a guy who has proven in his votes he doesn’t like women? Yet you say You Like women. Really? Go Figure!

                      By the time people like you get done voting Jeff Welborn back in, women will have no place in this state to get medical help or reproductive help.

                      Jeff Welborn Believes life starts at conception and is willing to put a woman in jail for murder for a miscarriage. Do you believe the same thing?

                      Grow up Kenneth! I don’t need to be treated like Mark, cuz your having a hard day trying to point me to your way of thinking. I know you don’t believe this drivel. I know you wouldn’t want your wife to have less health care. I know your a smart Guy.

                      But, You and I don’t have all the answers to life do we? And we are not gonna agree with every thing on the table are we, and I haven’t treated you badly, I just disagree with you.

                      Get over it!

                    • You know, I was just going to ignore your unintellegable reply until you made it personal. Fine. That is how you want to have it, so be it.

                      You have no idea what I want to see passed so don’t presume to tell me what I want. Further you are misrepresenting much of what Welborn did and did not vote on. That is your own lookout but it is in keeping with your entire campaign.

                      This is why I am not going to vote for you, Norma –

                      1) You are childish person with absolutely no self control
                      2) You have publicly posted to this list that you feel that gun ownership = (and I quote) “American [sic} are the ruthless killers of their countrymen in the world”
                      3) You are willing to use the “pity me, I am a girl” card and when called on it, you claim the person calling you on it hates women

                      I could go on, but that is a decent start. Good luck with your campaign.

                    • I am glad you didn’t spend the time to read what I wrote.

                      1. look in the Mirror before uttering your answer
                      2. No I havent! I am for 2nd amendment rights, as long as they do not interfere with peoples property interests via the Constitution
                      3. I am a woman. Sorry you don’t like me using that, but the fact remains.

                    • Yes, Norma, I did waste the time reading the garbage you wrote. It had nothing to do with the comments I made – in fact it basically a statement on why you think I shouldn’t vote for Welborn. I can get that on your website.

                      Whether you say you are for second amendment rights or not, it doesn’t change the fact that those are your words, saved to the internet for all time.

                      As I said before, I don’t give a damn whether you are a woman, a man or a pink elephant. If I was going to vote for you, it would be because I beleive that you will represent me. I don’t vote for people based on their gender, sexual preferance or hair style. I vote for people because I believe in them and you have given me no reason to believe in you.. in fact, quite the opposite. It is truly sad, too, because it would be nice if a more moderate person that is supportable would run in this damn town. You go ahead and sport your vagina for all to see. I doubt it will help you defeat Welborn…

                      And while we are on the subject… I did not say I supported Welborn. I said that he is highly respected (and he is) and that his wife was even more respected (and she is). I also said that, based on your online personality here, I cannot support you.

                    • SO? Thats fine! I respect you opinion…. I disagree with it whole heartingly, but I respect it. Just dont expect me to believe it or act on it!

                    • Norma, can I ask you a question? (Okay, two actually, because the previous was one.) What is your interest in escalating this for any reason whatsoever?

                      I apologize that I commented about your presentation online, without making it clear that I thought it would benefit you. I do not and should not apologize for your over-reaction to my comment. I do not and will not ever apologize for my treatment of you as a woman. I do not and will not apologize for my brother speaking his mind. He and I have very different personalities, and we do not speak with one voice. When you address him as if you are addressing us both, you insult both him and I.

                      Since that appears to be the path you’ve chosen, kindly allow me to clarify a few things. You will be hard pressed to find any single of us ‘mens’ in the Montana online who have done more to promote, support and respect women in both voice and political will than I have. I’ve never ever requested or expected thanks for that. What I do expect is mutual respect. I do not disagree with you on issues, yet still you claim your rights to ‘disagree’ while I’m supposed to “fuck off” and “get a life”. At no point do I feel “threatened” or “misunderstood”. What I do feel is disrespected, and it’s pretty damned obvious that you are doing that very thing.

                      Which leads directly back to the question I posed. What is your interest in escalating this for any reason whatsoever? I think the answer is somewhat clearer. You demand respect with no intention of offering it to others when it’s earned.

                    • Oh, and uh … For the record? As I’ve pointed out good-naturedly to my brother as well, online spell checks are free.

                    • Why are you asking me? Ask your brother the first question… but don’t expect me to acquiesce over your brother’s harsh and unnecessary statements towards me, I mean we had one face to face conversation on little things at a dinner table. I do not think that clarify’s him as knowing me at all. Or the fact that I for whatever reason… I cannot speak from a womans point of view… because I am a woman?

                      The second question depends on the device I use. But when I am on the computer… as in now…. The spell checker is automatically available. Smart phone not so much, its an older model. the E-pad pretty damn good about it, but I still haven’t figured out all the bells and whistles.

                      Lastly, so it happens….. sue me!


                    • I understand my brother’s motivations. He was pissed off because you told me to “fuck off” for no damned reason. Oh my, I should question why my brother gives a shit about me? Hardly. Norma, I’ve defended you to my brother. Seriously, I’ve been there and done that. I’m kinda over it. Consider that me ‘fucking off’.

                      An explanation of the technology you use is pretty cool. But it sure as all hell doesn’t explain why I have to “fuck off” and “get a life”. (Here’s a hint, Norma. This is the point where you really ought to apologize, with better than ‘I’m sorry you were offended’. I was ‘offended’ because you wrote stupid things, and keep tripling down on the stupid.)

                      So, again seriously, What is your interest in escalating this for any reason whatsoever? If you can’t understand what you should apologize for, then shut up and walk away. Quit pressing, because you’re not in the right here.

                    • So its a family thing is it? For over a year I stood by your sides in Arguments here at this Blog, but you get testy when you mis-quote me or mis-understand me, and I call you on it? That’s the reasoning? Is that even grown up at this point? Is it really my fault you feel slighted? I don’t see it that way!

                      Fine! Have a nice day guys!

                    • No, Norma. You haven’t ‘stood by my side’ anymore than I’ve stood by yours. What is true is true. That tends to be what we both attempt to defend. You think that means I have to defend you when you’re being stupid, even when you tell me to “fuck off”. Hey, dictator wannabe, I owe you nothing. That we agree on most every issue is coincidental. It sure as hell doesn’t mean I owe you anything.

                      Here’s what is true. Your professional presentation sucks rocks. You are already a joke to the Montana GOP online in Twitter. When someone tries to help you, you claim stupid privilege, as if what you’ve obviously written isn’t what you’ve obviously written. You then blame the person trying to help you because you’ve become a joke by your own accord. So, feel free to ‘fuck off’. You’re going to lose and lose big. All of us will pay the price because you are too simple to actually control your ego. You will then, like Melinda Gopher and Steve Kelly before you, blame everybody except yourself. Some might have sympathy for you, but I won’t. My reply will be very simple. “Fuck off” and get a life.

                    • Gosh I feel sorry for your Rob you need Professional help!

                    • Even that was dreadful grammar. But you are right. I do need the help of politicians who act as professionals. Good luck to any of those. You act like a twit. Good luck to you too, I guess.

                  • Norma, you wrote: “Innovation, bringing in manufacturing, Going around the status Quo of Business who won’t hire because Obama is President… that should be the knew norm.”

                    Mainly, that sentence was unintelligible. You do seem to have a tendency to mash up different thoughts that make sense to you but may not to others. It’s more than just spelling.

                  • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | June 23, 2012 8:10 PM at 8:10 PM |

                    HEY, I spell like Lewis and Clark! Never put much stock in it. But ya wanna know something? Terrible spelling is VERY common with those who speak numerous languages. True story. Hell, I used to be a great speller until I learned other languages. Then, things went to hell. And things get all mashed up! I spell Spanglish!

                    Sometimes, it comes out in English, and sometimes in Spanish. And sometimes, even the syntax goes all to ASL on me! I have to translate three times sometimes before it comes out right!

                    What’s really important though is word choice. English is a mongrel language, absolutely unphonetic! A disaster language for spelling, but a great language for communication!

                    BUT, if you know the roots of the word, you know how to use it even if it’s spelled wrong! Again, word choice is the most important thing for me. Spelling, well, not so much. It helps with word origins, and that’s about it.

                    So, I don’t fret about spelling at all. I consider it to be almost a waste of time. I like spelling bees, but I much prefer geography bees! I think that’s more important.

                    So, Norma, I’m right there right with you! I’m a LOUSY speller! In fact, I’m offal! Or soe I’ve been told! Many great American leaders have fought to have English spelling changed so that it’s phonetic. And they have a good point? Will it ever happen? I would say yes, some day. Why should “-ough” be prounced five or six different ways???

                    Until then, spellim’ as you cee PHIT!

                    • Yea I do speak a little too Much Spanish myself, I consider it a Blessing though, But I think your right Larry.

                      Their sentencing is put together almost backwards to English. Especially some of the Other spanish nations besides Mexico!

                      Well if that’s my problem, so be it cant keep everyone happy here

                    • Larry, don’t get me wrong. It isn’t just the spelling or atrocious grammar. As a twitterer, blogger and blog commenter I think Norma is the bomb. But she’s not running to be elected queen of the Montana online. She’s running to be a state representative of the largest county in Montana. That means communicating and working well with a Congress that sets policy for us all. I’m just old school enough to think that a degree of professionalism is required for the job. If not, then all we want is the lefty version of James Knox.

                    • Trust me I am not a lefty version of James Knox…. thats a Mark I refuse to be a Mark. I am a left leaning of center Democrat. I actually believe a lot of the old moderate line of Republican thinking. I am Talking the Late seventies and early eighties though. Not the numb-skulls of today!

                      I like a few Ideas of the Progressive left. I believe in Bipartisanship, only if facts are used when looking for answers. Currently my thinking is more in line with the Democrats because I believe in diversity of this nation in a big way. and I like looking forward to a better cultural mix, not behind.

                      The only good history serves…is to keep us from making the same mistakes twice, and to show us how humble are roots were then, or how far we have come forward…. otherwise we are in the time of making history for future generations to build on.

    • Craig, If you choose to make this a personal attack, I am willing to go down that road. All I said is that you used the opinion of one person to justify your point, not facts, figures or any kind of concrete proof. I said that my doing that, you are lowering the discussion to the Mark level. That certainly wasn’t a personal attack.. just one on your argument.

      Rob has already pointed out the obvious responce – that the corporate world will choose which candidate they feel will better support thier profits and they will use every means at their disposal to get that president elected. Citizen United made that easier. That doesn’t make it right, it just makes it reality.

      I stated clearly that it was his opinion and nothing you posted contradicted that. Moreover, nothing in what you posted said that it was anything BUT his personal opinion. He may very well sit on the President’s board, and he may have the support of his group, but what you posted made no mention of him speaking for the group, or it’s employees.

      What you have done, though, is clearly demonstrate that you think the American Public no longer chooses it’s Presidents – instead it is the corporate interests like this guy that chooses who our President should be. You may well be right but I will NEVER accept that it is the way it should be.

      • Kenneth, I have made no such choice. The Mark dig at me is only your latest such remark. Again I ask, have I offended you? If so, let me apologize for the slight.

        BTW, I have no intention or desire to go down your road.

        • Not my road.. I personally don’t like that kind of discussion and I would prefer to save it for Mark. Second, once again, it wasn’t a dig at you.. you are taking it that way. Taking the opinion of a single person (say a famous writer for instance…) and making that a basis for a factual argument is exactly what Mark does – therefore, a Mark argument.

          We have had our moments but I do not – as a rule – assume a slight. I find you particularly blind when it comes to your support of Republicans and their agendas, but each to their own. That is not “offending” to me unless you attempt to make it my fault for not buying into your argument.

          • The Business Rountable produces reports based on the input from its members. The chairman of the BR was speaking not his opinion, but as to the content of the BR’s most recent report that was compiled from all sorts of business data from its members. He didn’t just pluck it out of the air. BR reports are highly influential with government officials since BR members employee 14 million people here in the US.

            • Which is exactly the point Rob was trying to make. You keep repeating the 14 million employees like it lends some validity to the opinion of the people in charge. It doesn’t. In fact, it is further proof of their threat of extortion – do what we want or we will not only not hire anyone, we will threaten the jobs of 14 million people. You are not doing yourself any favors by continually repeating it.

  13. Craig and his earth hater friends are whistling in the dark.

    While Rasmussen Reports spins its web of numbers there are still no realistic combinations of electoral votes that give the election to Willard Romney.

    Missing from their data is the percentage of voters that support former NM Gov. Gary Johnson who needs to poll at least 15% nationally to participate in the debates with President Obama and that white Mormon from Massachusetts. After Ron Paul supporters are jettisoned from the earth hater convention in Tampa expect Gov. Johnson to gain momentum.

    “PPP polls have shown Johnson at 15 percent in his home state of New Mexico, 9 percent in Arizona, 8 percent in Montana and 7 percent in New Hampshire. A poll conducted by ORC International for the libertarian magazine Reason found Johnson taking 6 percent in Wisconsin.” Politifact.

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