Posted: July 31, 2012 at 7:44 am
Political Quick Hits
Say No To Congressman Hill’s Sales Tax
That’s the name of the new Facebook page against Rick Hill’s public support for the sales tax. The new page (which has an associated Twitter account called @HillSalesTax), highlights the increased cost that people would have to pay on goods and services under Hill’s proposal. The sales tax is the most regressive option for raising revenue available to the state, and the Congressman wants to create one to pay for big tax giveaways to out-of-state corporations. People will find themselves spending more on groceries, utilities, cars, and even a new home, while the wealthiest enjoy the tax code favors one of their fellow plutocrats bestows upon them. Hill calls this “job creation.” It’s another recycled GOP trick that Republicans have been using for years: raise taxes on the most vulnerable to help pay for tax breaks for those that don’t need them. I’m glad someone is spreading the word about the cost of Hill’s unpopular policy proposals. He’s been failing to get this passed for 20 years, but he might finally get his way if he’s elected.
Still a Market for Racism
First it was the “Don’t Re-nigg in 2012″ bumper sticker found for sale in a Columbia Falls pawn shop. Then it was the bullet-ridden outhouse labled “Obama Presidential Library” at the Republican State Convention.
Now there is this item, a “Presidential Bottle Holder” that a Cowgirl tipster came across in a tourist store/restaurant west of West Glacier the other day. Apparently, there are people out there who would actually part with money to demonstrate their view that Obama is a wino. It’s disappointing that a product like this is being sold here in Montana.
I guess this is the kind of item that the TEA Partiers think adds a touch of class to their dinner parties. I believe it was Bush who was the alcoholic.
Don’t forget John Boenher and Denny!!!
I’m surprised the holder wasn’t a plastic watermelon.
Or a crack pipe. These rednecks are sold this kind of thing as “conversation pieces.”
Its not only the fact that Racism still rears and ugly and misguided head… but the articles they are buying are Made outside of country, thereby these bigot types are still to stupid to see they are fueling off-shoring.
What exactly does it say when this two-part post garners more attention to the stupid racist element than to the part which actually could negatively impact Montana in a very serious way? I’m not trying to diss anybody here. But consider for a moment that the focus on stupidity surrounding cultural issues has always favored the GOP come election time. They want us focused on their onanistic hatred of Obama. That way, it’s harder to pay attention to how they want to screw us over.
A good argument for posting the subjects separately.
Agreed.
I want to know just WHO the hell STORES a bottle of booze like that?! Hell, I just DRINK it! Doesn’t compute. Doesn’t make sense. I don’t understand who buys a bottle of booze to store it! I don’t get it. I wonder how many they’ve actually sold? Not many I’d guess.
You see, anyone who actually STORES booze would not be interested such an item. And rednecks like me would use such a product for about a total of two minutes. Then I’d DRINK the son of a bitch! I don’t need O’Bama holdin’ my booze for me!
Help me out here. Who is the target audience???
Larry that’s because your a practical Montanan, Rapid Tea-partiers are not practical people. if they were practical in all things political they would have been voting out Republicans long time ago.
Good point, the sales tax will have a far worse impact on Loe income Montanans than all the budget cuts passed by the last legislative session combined. Not to mention that middle income people will also take a hit.
Repubs will say that a sales tax will impact businesses too, but a sales tax is likely to be subject to tax cheaters at a greater rate than other taxes. Businesses often get around sales taxes by labeling their purchases as business inputs rather than conSumer items to evade the taxes. They can also consolidate in weird ways to say they are connected to those businesses from whom they purchase goods, and therefore evade the taxes. ( becuz they claim they are buying only from themselves.)
Maybe you should just step across the border into Idaho….class act there will always get you going. It would have been much better if it were little old Denny Rehberg, in a boat, on a horse’s ass, etc.
It would be nice to see the Cowgirl share a few facts every once in a while. Tourism is MT’s #1 industry. Yet, tourists get away with paying very little direct tax. Yes, let’s just keep the status quo and let hard working, middle class Montanans foot the bill to build roads and bridges and parks for tourists. Replacing income and/or property taxes with a sales tax is a no brainer when your number one industry is tourism. It’s not even a partisan proposal. I don’t care for Rick Hill, but this is common sense! What’s a better deal than having someone else chip in to pay your tax bill?
I disagree! How do you think you were gonna prove who was an Tourist to tax them? Demand a license? Thats gonna get thrown out for being unconstitutionally wrong.
What your really saying is that all tourist locations must impose a tax? What about the Montanans that frequent fishing hotspots or go to state parks. Are you gona ask them to show a license as well? Again unconstitutionally wrong, and most montanans like me pay for my state parks with my autos license and truck license.
So what it really comes down to is, the same Bullshit as last year, where the GOP in Our state tried to impose a tax on the tourist industry itself. That was defeated because they already pay the same as any other small business in the state.
It would be unfair to tax those businesses more, because most of them are family run and make under 250,000 a year.
You want to tax something, Tax the Mega loaders sending equipment to oil sites. I am sick of us spending endless amounts of money to keep up roads, and chop down countless trees for growing in the wrong spot(to close to the road), that nature put them.
Tax the drunks in this state a thousand dollars each time they try to drive home drunk and get caught. We literally exploded this year in drunk driving arrests, and deaths attributed to drunk drivers.
Tax speeders who get caught, Tax the crap out of poachers of wild game and fish, But don’t tax tourism it is one of the best money makers in our state.
You must have a hard time reading. I never said ONLY tax tourists. If you impose a sales tax, it will hit tourists. Let’s make it easy enough for a liberal brain to understand:
A government needs $100 of revenue. It can tax it’s 100 citizens an average of $1 in income tax, thus raising $100. Or, it can impose a sales tax. 100 citizens pay an average of $0.90 in sales tax, thus raising $90. Tourists come and enjoy the roads, bridges, parks, and services built with the $100. They shop and buy goods and make up the remaining $10 needed through paying the same sales tax as the citizens. The average tax bill of the citizens is lower on the backs of the tourists.
If you went to Hawaii and told them to replace their sales tax with an income tax they’d laugh you off the island! Only an idiot couldn’t see that a sales tax is a MUST in a state where tourism is a big industry.
By the way…my family has been in Montana since the 1860′s. I’m hardly a newcomer.
If you simplify anything to the point of unreality, then you can make up whatever conclusion you want, can’t you? Your numbers aren’t based on anything, at all. They also don’t account for the fact that this fine state receives ~$1.50 in federal money for every dollar Montana pays in. Those tourists are already paying a portion for those bridges, parks and roads.
And, you completely ignore the Montana “Bed Tax”. There is a 4% tax on all lodging in Montana, except that it’s actually 7%. The 4% is for promotion of Montana tourism. The remaining 3% goes directly to the general fund. You’ll notice, please that’s the tax that your Republicant buddies tried to *cut* in the last legislature.
Republicans didn’t try to *cut* the bed tax – they tried to redirect some of the funds collected by it.
How Bullspitter, are you gonna know what a tourist is? How?
Do they wear Hawaiian shirts or something, have to many tied flies stuck in their hat, do they Talk Funny… How are you gonna know they are from out of state?
Your as dumb as dirt if you didn’t read my comment above! Making tourists a different class of person is discriminatory in federal Law! Only a agency or officer can make that determination, Not a business! “Sigh.” Go back to school you have no understanding of civil rights law.
Norma, I hesitate to write this because I don’t think you take disagreement from friendlies very well. However.
This is not a civil rights issue. Out-of-staters *can* be charged for services differently as a different “class” of person if taxation or state funding is involved. Montanan’s pay nothing to access state parks. Out-of-staters are charged a fee. (Mostly voluntary. Whether they pay it or not is their own affair, unless they get caught. Then they are billed, but not ‘charged’ with a crime.) Businesses can charge more for out of state patrons, with no Constitutional objection, as long as taxes are an issue. The state does it all the time at our fine universities, and with sportsman licenses.
In fairness to Bullshitter, he called for nothing different than his idea of “fair taxation”. It isn’t fair, obviously, because it is regressive. But not6 once has he called for segregating tourists from Montanans. That’s actually the insidious point he’s attempting to make, that Montanans should pay more to capture more from others.
I don’t think we’ve been On friendly terms for some time Rob, and therefore you wouldn’t know my snark regarding Bullspitter…..Thats okay! We dont see eye to eye on much anymore.
I was trying to be polite to you, Obviously Polite isn’t in your repertoire for me… seems like your still looking for the chance to dig a wider hole I withhold all future Olive branches or Atta Boys from now on!
Since i wasn’t butting heads with your thoughts, here is a few more of my own to add to the Mix…. lets be fair, the sales tax Hill is trying to impose will hit everyone in the state repressively, A future tourist tax will be even more tax on top of that.
For example When I rented a room for a couple of nights in New York last month waiting for Mike to come home on leave in Jersey… I decided to visit some folk and acquaintances I hadn’t seen in a while. Not counting the other costs and just the room…………it cost me 150.00 for the room + 5.875 percent, plus $2 for the bed tax, plus 8.875 percent in combined city and state sales tax a $2 occupancy tax and a $1.50 Jacob K. Javits Convention Center tax. Final price tag for two nights = $377.84 almost 78 dollars of that in taxes.
Is this were we want to go as a state? The minimum wage in New York is About $540.00 a week. Montana is $200.00 shy of that. Does Hill think people in this state could possibly afford even a 6% sales tax + a plus bed Tax? I don’t think so.
In most cases, If we get stuck with Hills plans for a tax burden — on top of high airfares and room rates — it will be significant enough that some travelers will alter their plans, cutting their stay short in Montana or seeking out cheaper properties elsewhere in the country. Not to Mention, Obama just signed a Tourism bill in January, that will cost travelers abroad a little more money to get their visas quicker to come to America for vacation.
Rick Hills plan well end up losing tourism and giving Montanans the finger, just so he can cut taxes for the 1%. Thats always been his plan. It just depends what side of the intellect divide you are on…..
BullSPIT’s Tools for the GOP side, or a regular intelligent middle class Montanan?
The Republicians in this state want to give tax breaks to big companies… They are hell bent on a trickle down economy, even though we all now it hasn’t worked at all and gave us this crappy economy now.
So I say watch where this argument goes now, because I believe more tax bills are in the GOP pipeline for Montana this session…and I am looking for it to hit rentals for any real estate, that rents a place under 6 months.
Example:
Say, whenever you, your agent or a licensed realtor representing you, rents your house, cabin, or property for six (6) months or less… you might be legally required to a percentage of that as a tourist development tax and remit same to the state.
So a property owner will have to pay more taxes. if he rents to a college student or a seasonal employee. The Owner of the property will also have to charge these mimimum wage people more than they might be willing to pay. I don’t think this makes any sense in this states current future either.
Actually, we do. That you don’t see that is precisely the point of my complaints.
“Replacing income and/or property taxes with a sales tax is a no brainer when your number one industry is tourism. It’s not even a partisan proposal.”
New to Montana are ya, Honkey? Sales tax is a baaaaad idea. Will never fly here.
But you ask a great question. WHERE will we get all the tax money? Why not start by RE-taxing all the corporations that the Pubbies gave tax breaks to for all those years. See many new jobs that they were supposed to create? Me neither. You see, Pubbies just gotta be the stupidest sumbitches in the world. Either that or the greediest. But I say BOTH! Tax breaks for outta state multi-national corporations is simply giving money away. Time for that to stop!
BTW, I see that our buddy dave lewis doesn’t like Schweitzer much. Gee, isn’t that too bad……bwhahahahahaaa! Someone please get davey a crying towel!
Yep, I like that too Larry!
By the way, Harry Crack, Environmental Retard…the sales tax used to be pushed by the Democrats in Montana…but your memory must be clouded with your head up Schweitzer’s ass.
Really? The last Governor who proposed it was Tim Babcock, a Republican way on back in the sixties. That’s one of the things that lead to Montana’s Constitutional Convention in 1972.
Y’know, Bullshitter, somebody as misleading and pig-ignorant as you are simply must be a Hill staffer. You’re one of the many reasons he will lose in November.
Speaking of facts, you’ve got yours wrong here – but thanks for confirming that Republicans are now obligated to hug Rick Hill’s unpopular sales tax garbage. The number one industry in Montana is agriculture.
I see that agriculture has now overtaken tourism since the economy tanked. Just a few years ago, tourism was #1 and now it’s #2. My apologies. It still doesn’t change the argument. Only a moron wouldn’t want tourists to chip in with their tax bill. A sales tax is NOT regressive if you exempt groceries, gas and other basic necessities.
Go to Florida
Obviously not a Montanan or a new transplant….Or like Rob Implied, a “Hill” staffer. Take your sales tax Talk somewhere else, real people work and play here in Montana.
Post a link or lie no more. I tend to follow such things, and I can’t find one instance in which tourism outstripped agriculture as Montana’s number one industry. Perhaps you’re thinking of the time that Judy from Mars claimed such, and was hammered for it by those who work in agriculture. (Did you think it a coincidence that she left office with a 20% approval rating? Of course when she decided not to run for a second term, her approval rating was 18%, far worse than California’s Grey Davis who got recalled at that time.)
A few more facts you might want to cozy up to, Bullshitter.
1) Montana already has a sales tax on gasoline. This is a big state, a very big state. Gas is in high demand here. So, if you’re not being a moron, how do you define “basic necessities”?
2) Montana already has sin taxes, a rather hefty sales tax on tobacco and alcohol. And, as indicated above, we have a lodging tax. So, what is there left to “exempt” from your idea of basic necessities?
Good Points!!!!
Bull, The sales tax is regressive no matter what is exempted or not. A sales tax is regressive because it is a tax that applies equally to every purchaser but results in taking a larger percentage of income from a low-income person than from a high-income person. Your lack of facts is just embarrassing.
Let me give an example of why a sales tax is regressive. No matter what is purchased, no matter what is exempted.
Let’s look at the example of a high-income individual buying a vehicle versus a low-income individual buying a vehicle. In this example, the low-income person will earn $20,000 per year while the high-income iperson will earn $500,000 per year. If the low-income person buys a $10,000 used car at five percent sales tax, they will pay $500 in sales taxes. This $500 is 2.5 percent of the low-income person’s total income. If the high-income person purchases a new car that costs $40,000 at the same sales tax of five percent, they will pay $2,000 in sales tax. While the actual amount of sales tax paid by the high-income person ($2,000) is more than the sales tax paid by the low-income individual ($500), the percentage of the overall income that these sales taxes represents in terms of the person’s total income is drastically disproportionate. The sales tax paid by the high-income individual is .4 percent of their total income compared to the sales tax paid by the low-income individual which is 2.5 percent of their total income.
The high-income individual is hardly fazed by sales tax while it affects the financial status of the low-income person to a greater degree. This is why the issue of regressive taxation is such a political loser for Hill and the Montana GOP, as it proves that he favor the rich while others represent the regular guy.
Thank you for the excellent example.
Republicans don’t believe the poor should be allowed to purchase anything except dried beans and used clothing –Hill will exempt those items and then make the case that for a poor person to purchase anything else they are wasting money and should be kicked off public assistance. If u are a poor kid, u don’t deserve a birthday cake, little alone a book.
Agriculture is the No. 1 industry, from both livestock and crops. Tourism is definitely on the ‘short list’ of top revenue producers, but a sales tax is regressive and has more of crushing effect of the working poor, where more
of us are headed as Wall Street regroups for their next ‘set of tricks’.
7.7 % of jobs in MT are related to tourism, according to the MT Board of Tourism and that’s great, but it’s Ag and Industry at the top.
http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2012/02/soaking-poor-state-state
When talking Montana taxes there is a great resource provide by your government
http://revenue.mt.gov/publications/biennial_reports/default.mcpx
While we don’t have a general sales tax, there are a lot of selective sales taxes that get Montanans and tourist alike. Rob has pointed out that Montana has not one tax but two taxes on hotel rooms (something about a silly Constitutional cap of a maximum 4% sales tax). Let us not forget the resort tax, rental car and the sin taxes paid by people like me who have vices.
If you look at the states hardest hit by the great recession they are heavily dependent on sales tax revenue. Setting the regressivity/progressivity argument aside what tax do we get rid of? Income tax brings in close to a $1 Billion and Property Tax brings in over $1.3 Billion – Looking back on the fiscal notes of past sale tax bills, a 4% general sales at best might bring $500 Million. My income taxes and property taxes are not going down! Looking through the sound bites in the newspapers I’d say these are the taxes Governor Hill would get rid of: Corporate License Tax (income tax) +/- $125 Million, Property Tax on Business Equipment $96 Million and cut the rates of Natural Resource taxes $200 Million. This will be done in the name of getting Main Street Montana back to work but benefit Wall Street.