ATP’s Tangled Web May Snare Others

Montana’s head elections regulator ruled this week that American Tradition Partnership illegally coordinated with a GOP legislative candidate, Dan Kennedy R-Laurel.  Now, Montana’s top election regulator says he’s launching an investigation into other candidates ATP may have coordinated with.

ATP is the right-wing political attack group that was instrumental in bringing us the nation’s most bat-crap crazy state legislatures in 2011 and 2013. Kennedy’s primary opponent was but one of several GOP candidates who complained about ATPs activities to elect hard right-wingers over more moderate republicans.

As KUFM’s Dan Boyce reports, an investigation into illegal campaign activity

“is now expanding to include all candidates who similarly worked with ATP in 2010. Motl’s decision also criticizes Campaign Treasurer Corey Stapleton of Billings for failing to keep required records. Stapleton, now running for the U.S. House seat, said in an e-mail that he only agreed to be the treasurer if Kennedy delegated the administrative tasks to a deputy.”

Other Candidates

The list of candidates will likely include, but is not limited to current and former legislators Scott Sales, Tom Burnett, Mike Miller, Ed Butcher, Bob Wagner, Wendy Warburton, Jerry O’Neil , and Derek Skees.

We know this because their names were found in a box of documents in a meth house which later became the subject of a brilliant work of national investigative journalism. In a full-hour exposé of Montana politics and the secretive right-wing group, PBS’s show Frontline revealed that a secret stash of incriminating documents has been found in a meth house, showing extensive communications between these and perhaps other legislative candidates and the ATP, and showing that the ATP was even preparing campaign material for them.

You see, the 2010 election, in which the Tea Party swept into control of the Montana legislature, may have featured massive illegalities.   Under state law, third party groups, the ones like American Tradition Partnership which spend masses of unregulated, unreported money, are legally barred from coordinating with candidates.  But several legislative candidates and the ATP were caught red handed, working together, in violation of the law.

The group has ties to other GOP legislators as well. Many of the candidates ATP attacked were not democrats but fellow Republicans who were deemed not conservative enough for ATP and the TEA Party. The uber-conservative Sen. Art Wittich (R-Bozeman), was lawyer for ultra-shady American Tradition Partnership.  He served as Senate Majority Whip during the 2013 session and chief attacker of a small group of slightly more moderate Republicans who broke rank on a small number of bills.

The Commissioner of Political Practices decision and attached exhibits also include the names of GOP current and former lawmakers Joel Boniek, Ted Washburn, and Kelly Flynn.

ATP’s Bankrollers

These same meth-house documents also revealed that ATP’s financial backers include, among others:

PPL Montana

TEA Party billionaire Ray Thompson, of Kalispell ($10,000)

former GOP legislator John Sinrud, of Bozeman

Intermountain Rural Electric Association ($25,000)

Former TEA Party Legislator Tom Burnett (R-Bozeman)

Flathead Timber, of Whitefish

Dan O’Neil Construction, of Billings

Soby Construction, of Bozeman

Raemaeker Insurance, of Choteau

Livingston developer Peter Mackenzie (various checks, thousands)

T. Baird Construction, Big Timber

developer Gateway Village LLC, of Bozeman

Jason Theilman, Steve Daines’ campaign manager

GOP Senator Bruce Tutvedt (R-Kalispell), who ironically became a target of the attacks

Applebee’s Neighborhood Grill (Apple Gilroy Inc.)

Big Timber TEA Partier Bob Faw

K12 Management Inc. Catholic religious private school corporation, Washington D.C.

Taxpayers for Liberty, Andrew J. O’Neill ($4k)

TEA Party Rep. Dan Kennedy (R-Laurel), Campaign account

Staff and Board

It takes a particular kind of person do to this kind of work.  ATP employed people like Tim Ravndal, the TEA Partier who made national and statewide news for posting remarks that he was looking for a Wyoming instruction manual to deal with gay citizens–a reference to the Matthew Shepard murder.  Former Republican legislator Dan Fuch’s R-Billings, was also on staff.

Its board members were also later revealed by a court to include Doug Lair, Terry Baird, Bob Faw, Peter MacKenzie, and Geoff Goeble.

ATP Aliases

The group operated under several names to further deceive Montana voters.  As the Commissioner of Political Practices documents show, these names include “Montana Citizens for Right to Work” and the “Assembly Action Fund.”  No doubt there were other groups, as many suspect, that will soon be revealed as investigations into these other races begins.


Other Shady Acts

Improper coordination with legislative candidates isn’t the only shady activity ATP is known for.  Among the many shameful examples of this group’s “advocacy” for “issues” was a fake newspaper circulated widely during the Bullock-Hill contest for governor, which depicted Steve Bullock in a lineup of sex offenders.

bullock wtp

The group also sent mailers impersonating unions that they used to attack union-endorsed candidates.

What else they did will no doubt come out soon.  The infamous documents found in the meth house are now in the hands of the FBI, and we’ll see what happens as the case moves forward in federal court.


88 Comments on "ATP’s Tangled Web May Snare Others"

  1. Let us not forget who they bankrolled as Legislators– Like Mike Miller who continually retweets Cato Institute crazyness…

    You all remember Cato Institute? Cato leads the push for privatization of government services; as early as 1983, Cato initiated the first push for the privatization of Social Security, and has heavily backed it ever since. Cato supports the wholesale elimination of eight cabinet agencies— Commerce, Education, Energy, Labor, Agriculture, Interior, Transportation and Veterans Affairs— and the privatization of many government services. Cato Institute was founded by Ed Crane with a $500,000 grant from Charles Koch, a chemical and petroleum heir who was active with Crane in the Libertarian Party.
    – See more at:

    And here in Dillon they have bankrolled our own State senator Debbie Barrett!… the list goes on and on and Cowgirls has named them all before I really think she should do the state a service and name them all again.

  2. Excellent reporting and summarizing of the ATP’s tangled web. Check the statutes on what happens to elected officials who are convicted of campaign violations… It may be the scofflaws will need to vacate their office.

  3. The teabaggers firmly believe that if you can’t win legitimately, cheat. After all, they are in the RITE.

  4. Listen Republicans, If you are a true fiscal conservative, you know the kind that conserves and protects… Do your self a favor and stop feeding the extreme right of your caucus. it is very simple. don’t fund them anymore, keep them from your Mailing lists, let them create their own party…. as David Frum says so succinctly this week on CNN, ” Don’t let the door hit them on the way out.”

    For goodness sake don’t feel sorry for them, they have been kicked out before for the same shenanigans in the Democratic party years ago. The racist, fundamentalists haven’t learned to turn the other cheek, become humble, or lose hatred, and without backing they will never become the majority…ever.

  5. Today the only true fiscal conservatives are Democrats, and liberals the only law and order group.

  6. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 21, 2013 2:55 PM at 2:55 PM |

    The Barking Seal has a truly bizarre editorial in the GF Spitoon today. One must wonder just why the Spitoon sees fit to print this guy? They already have a full hog trough full of Teat Party writers. I don’t get it. Are they now gonna allow a lefty to respond to the Barking Seal? And really, the dude has been out of the military for HOW long now, and he’s still usin’ his military pic? Jeebus. How cheesy can the Teat Party get?

    Barking seal barks loudly and long about, you guessed it, Ben GHAZI! And of course the debt. Pretty pathetic stuff. It’s painfully obvious that the Spitoon does NOT edit for content. Sad, so sad. Barking Seal played a wee bit too much football without a helmet! And it shows!

  7. Did you hear what the pope said, OMG this guy is finally the best person to speak to these Fundamentalist wackos!!!!!

    Speaking at daily Mass last Thursday, Pope Francis warned Christians against turning their faith into a rigid ideology.

    “The faith passes, so to speak, through a distiller and becomes ideology,” he said, according to Radio Vatican. “And ideology does not beckon [people]. In ideologies there is not Jesus: in his tenderness, his love, his meekness. And ideologies are rigid, always. Of every sign: rigid.

    “And when a Christian becomes a disciple of the ideology, he has lost the faith: he is no longer a disciple of Jesus, he is a disciple of this attitude of thought… For this reason Jesus said to them: ‘You have taken away the key of knowledge.’ The knowledge of Jesus is transformed into an ideological and also moralistic knowledge, because these close the door with many requirements.”
    “The faith becomes ideology and ideology frightens, ideology chases away the people, distances, distances the people and distances of the Church of the people,” Francis added. “But it is a serious illness, this of ideological Christians. It is an illness, but it is not new, eh?”

    He said Christian ideology was the result of a lack of true prayer.

    Rock on Pope, Rock on!

  8. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 7:04 AM at 7:04 AM |

    NAIL’S IT! Don nails the door shut on the clown car that is the Teat Party in Montana! There will again be NO shortage of comic relief this next election cycle. HeeLARious stuff! Kim Jong Essman, the Barking Benghazi Seal, Chump Edmunds, Corky Stumblebum, Rosenfail, they’re ALL in there! Good job, Don. But a word of caution, Don. The Barking Seal’s buddy has his “own private CIA”! Be afraid, VERY afraid!….
    There’s gonna be some PRAYER warriors hangin’ round your residence ifn’ you ain’t careful!

  9. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 7:42 AM at 7:42 AM |

    Screw Obamacare. I want DICKocare! Just imagine what the American taxpayer has spent to keep this dick standing?! Incredible!

  10. Warning to political hacks: Lock your car, or some meth head will turn over all your stolen stuff to an opposing politician, who will in turn sneak it off to a sympathetic enforcer and hide it from you while slanted sympathetic journalists root through it.
    Then, you will learn about it third hand, and be utterly h o s e d.
    I don’t have any sympathy for ATP/WTP and the techniques they used, but there was definite political cast in how the documents were handled. Probably the luckiest break the Left will get this cycle.

  11. Luck had nothing to do with it Dave. Think about what republicans have sown: The war on terror, The war on drugs, the war on women, the war on muslims, the war on Unions, the war on childrens health, the war on obamacare, the war on democrats, the War on minorities, the war on Gays The war on Immigration….. the Republicans have declared War, on every other American outside of their party Dave. Everyone else pretty much in the world!

    Do you really think you and your party, which has done nothing positive in the world except sow dissonance, has a future with the rest of America, or the world ? …. Are you all just twerking yourselves?

    No reasonable man or woman will be party to your party in the coming years, because of the cliff GOP jumped off of hand in hand with the Tea Party!.

  12. War on Muslims? What was that little happening in Kenya last month, then?
    Enjoy your delusions, abNorma.

    • Right Dave Ignore the elephants in the room Afghanistan, Iraq the very wars Republican kept off the books and broke America with?????

      Dems know to go after terrorists only, Republicans want to punish whole countries for having a terrorist in them. Look in the mirror Dave your whacked Bud!

      • Lastly what does a mall attack in Kenya have to do with Americans dude?? We have offered help after the fact, looks like no American soldiers or civilians were killed there. Tell me when was the last time you went to a mental health screening Bud…. Because you are wacked, did you forget how many american soldiers died looking for a man named Osama bin Laden under a republican president who never found him… how it took a democratic President to bring him to justice? Are you trying to revise your f**k up history now dude???

        Save your “Sean the dead” Hannityisms for someone who cares and watches FOX news.

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 11:44 AM at 11:44 AM |

          Dave’s still licking his wounds from gettin’ his ASS kicked by a woman, Nancy Pelosi! Leave him be. He’ll be fine. After the shutdown fiasco, it’ll take some time to heal!


  13. The Military is taking the ROTC away from the south… something about not having people who join not being bright enough for officer material…. Moving the programs into the north where the military’s chance of getting better candidates for officers school is growing?

    Even the military sees where the education of the south’s youngsters are going with all the fundamentalist crap and creationism schools….downhill!

    • Norma, it’s no surprise that you would lie about this. Even the University of California at Santa Barbara is losing it’s program. The reasons are nothing as you represent.

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 11:47 AM at 11:47 AM |

        OH….MY….GOD! It’s the END to Teat Party world as we know it! I WANT MY FASCIST MURCA BACK!


        Gays not guns, dude. I for one am damn TIRED of being the cop for the world! While, actually, more accurately, the enforcer for the corporate fascists! Let’em hire ALL Blackwater to fight their wars! It’s time.

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 11:52 AM at 11:52 AM |

          PRIVATIZE FASCISM! My new motto. Give guys like the Barking Seal a job with blackater in STEAD of gummint welfare! Can you even IMAGINE if all these fascist corporations had to make a living with OUT a gummint contract???? It would clean UP politics overnight! The Kockh brothers would be the Limp brothers with OUT gummint contracts!

          • Looks to me like the Military is moving to diplomacy, and world building without the guns also Larry. The ROTC closed in some of the most militant areas of the country. No longer wanting warmongers but people who know how to work, with locals, open to change not sliding a pin into place on an automatic. I agree!

            • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 12:11 PM at 12:11 PM |

              PRIVATIZE FASCISM! Look, a return to the pre-WWII days would NOT be such a bad thing at all! The ONLY reason that the world is a dangerous place is because the military industrial complex MADE is such! When the military becomes a toy in the hands of a chimp like bush, it’s time to get back to our roots! SCREW the military! Where are the great military successes since WEII? Grenada?


              Butter not guns, with some education and health care thrown in! Time to cut the fascist loose! There were NOT fascists when the Founder wrote the Constitution, otherwise they would have banned them too!

            • Norma, again you lie. Read the reasons for the closures.

              • Thanks Craig but I will take the word of my close family and friends in the military over MSM any day of the week. all of them went to ROTC first, all of them are now officers, all of them Lifers, including my son who at first was not so happy he had to return to service… What changed his mind was were the Military is going. From big war machines to small strike packaging.

                Honing the brightest, instead of the dead weight of sheer numbers…. no Craig, you’re the dinosaur here. your out of step, an antique and not useful or truthful in this conversation.

      • Norma is not lying, Craig. She’s simply wrong, and unaware of same.

    • Craig is absolutely right on this one, Norma. You have severely misrepresented this move by the ROTC to shutdown programs. It also had nothing to do with the academic standing of those programs either. The ROTC program – like every other governmental program – is attempting to deal with the budget cuts over the last couple of years (in this case, the sequester). While I completely agree that the educational system in the religious south has gone completely batshit crazy, this is not a result of it.

      Since Craig posted a link to the WSJ which is a closed site, here is a better link to open information on the cutback –

      • A quote from the above article –

        Other colleges and universities whose programs will be closed are Georgia Regents, East Tennessee State, Morehead State, North Dakota State, Northern Michigan and Tennessee Technological Universities; and the Universities of California at Santa Barbara, North Alabama, South Dakota, Southern Mississippi, Tennessee at Martin and Wisconsin at La Crosse, A spokesman for Georgia Regents University said the university had not received official word about changes to the program.

        As you can easily see, the cuts were done in smaller population colleges all over the US, not just in the south. Yes, they all what you would call “rural” (but by that definition, all of Montana would be considered rural including Missoula, Bozeman and Billings…) and that was the point of the closures. The Army decided to focus on larger population schools (more bang for the buck as it were). It should be noted that a number of these schools are attempting to fight the ROTC closures because this program has been very successful in graduating students that go on to better things in life. It should also be noted that the Army is not closing these programs due to educational failures – ““This action is not a reflection of either the quality of your program or the outstanding cadets you have produced,” Thomas R. Lamont, assistant secretary of the Army for manpower and reserve affairs, wrote in a letter to the chancellor of Arkansas State University, one of the institutions.”

      • No Moorecat your wrong! Look I have my son and ten other family members now serving, ROTC has been talking about this openly for the last year in the military. Bad Apples are coming out of those Areas, not the quality of Officers the Military has been moving too. They have found their best candidates with cooler hears coming out of the bigger cities, more urban Areas.

        Your kind is not what the military is looking for anymore. They went liberal on you and you didn’t even notice. they want smaller, faster, smarter Units to fight against non state actors…. The big, the south, and republican minded aren’t in the future of the military of tomorrow.

        And it makes sense. Over the last fifteen years Republicans have done everything they could to keep body armor and the right intelligence to the grunts below to keep them safe in times of conflict.

        Even the military is wary of republicans after they pushed for a war in Iraq, predicated on faulty intelligence ginned up by a republican president and vice president. carried out by republican generals who, thank god all lost their jobs to that stupidity.

        They are cleaning house of GOP warhawks. one of the biggest reasons they dragged My son Michael back to his unit, after he had already served 4 years… to teach for a different kind of war. They are dumping the average warmongers, for smart kids, Light gadgets that work in small combat, and hospitality between treatied nations.

        Your kind of war day is gone. the old guard all but purged from the Pentagon. People not predicated on just pulling a trigger nowadays

        The ROTC is reflecting those values now too!

        • And this is why the Democrats are going to sabotage their chance to get the House back in 2014.

        • The really sad part about this story is that Democrats like Norma could have really used this as a way to get votes – by pointing out that the Republican Failure in Congress has resulted in taking away education opportunities for our youth. This is just one of the many effects the Sequester has had on our educational system and oppurtunities for advanced education for our youth are declining. Instead, she makes up some kind of weird conspiracy theory about these cuts – which is in direct opposition to the actual facts of the story – and tries to sell it.

          As I said above, this is how Democrats are going to sabotage their legitimate chance to make real gains in Congress. Independents and moderates like me will walk away from stupidity like what Norma is spouting.

          • So do you think people will believe an AWOL runner from the Navy? Listen to a coward Talking shit about how much he knows about the Military, over an entire Military family who has served our country with honor for over a 100 years? Really Moorcat?

            I’ll wait!

            • Did you serve, Norma? No? Then what the fuck do you think your family has to do with anything?

              • Hey Rob, When you get your head out of your butt, you can thank me for being a nurse in time of war. Meanwhile, If you have something else to say about me you can’t prove…keep it to yourself. Now as I was saying about your AWOL Brother what does he know about the military exactly????

                • See I wont talk about my Military service, because after all the blood, structures, caring, and crying… When I and other women came home after saving peoples lives, we couldn’t become certified nurses in Hospitals unless we went back to college, and retook all the classes necessary to graduate.

                  Yep screwed! Thats how the real world treated woman who served in the medical field in the 70’s, They didn’t give us a leg up like they did the guys.

                  So that chip on my shoulder, is well deserved and a badge of honor.

                • abNormal, this is the first time ~ever~ that you have attempted to establish any credibility for yourself, and then only in the face of demeaning others. And the only appeal you could muster is an emotional TeaPeep style play for victim status and sympathy.

                  No, you don’t ‘deserve’ a chip on your shoulder. No one ever does. That’s like writing that you get to be an asshole just because you did something good. Nope. Doing something good doesn’t excuse you for being an asshole. Using your good works to justify being an asshole does nothing but prove how big an asshole you really are.

                  • Hey Dickwad, the Question here is, Why should any woman have to establish any Street Creed? I have established credentials long before this. very few men who comment here have treated me as equal from the beginning… and your brother aren’t in that party.

                    Hell you don’t even treat Cowgirl with respect until you need her. Men like you, never lIsten to women until they themselves are butt deep in shit.

                    Hell, I had Docs online for years, photos news articles, all I have seen from the Kaileys is Mouth, and most of it Questionable at best. The Guts to run for us Democrats…. and as you can see Ill walk right up to a republican, and either help him get things done…. or verbally kick his ass cause he isn’t GOP, hes a wanna be Patriot, a tea-bagging douche bag, a jump off the cliff zombie for the right.

                    I tell you who I go after even harder than those Numbskulls, Idiots in our own party who think liberal but are racist, use dem Talking points yet demean equality….

                    So your Opinion, was I should treat you Better….. Bwahahaha?

                    ………………. NAw!

                    • Dickwad? Really? Is that the best you’ve got?

                      abNormal, this is why you don’t earn any respect. The question is not why women should have to establish ‘creed’ (sic). The question is why you don’t have any and don’t think you need any. Notice. It has nothing to do with you having a vagina, but rather much more to do with you being an arrogant blowhard.

                      You might want to check with Cowgirl(s) about the disrespect I show them, because I guarantee you it’s vastly less than you. I don’t recall ever ‘needing’ them, yet strangely you do because no one would put up with your shit otherwise.

                    • You didn’t have any respect for me since “ABnormal” name calling. You Kailely snowflakes completely go ballistic the minute your names are spelled wrong.

                      So maybe, there is a better clarification on who the real whiners are here????

                      Just saying!

                      The rest of your crap is just a lousy rendition of male Vibrato……

                      You turn that big flashing martyr sign on your head up any brighter and you’re going to singe off your pointy little moron head!

                    • Was there spittle running down your chin as you typed that Norma ? Have you had your rabies shot?

                    • abNormal, the point you really don’t seem to get is that neither I or any one else owe you any respect at all. You are owed no respect. You have earned no respect. No, I really don’t respect you, and have no reason to other than your foolish demand that I should.

                    • Ditto Buddy boy, thats what I have been saying to you all along…. I nor anyone else owe you any respect at all…..and I thought Mark was thick- headed?

                    • I would not mind Norma’s rants if they were original thoughts. But like a Teabagger, she just parrots talking points. And like a Teabagger, she ends up contradicting herself when there is a conflict between the talking points. Larry is annoying and , like Norma, has overrun the comments section, but at least he is original.

                    • “You turn that big flashing martyr sign on your head up any brighter and you’re going to singe off your pointy little moron head!”
                      Norma do you mean like this…..
                      Naw, Weak try though at insulting me! Afraid of a smart woman?

                      I always laugh when the pot tries to insult the kettle.

                  • Tea- Bagger????? Bwahahaha if this isn’t the Most HIlarious thing.

                    Anyone else notice that the whiners so far are just men????

                    And one has the audacity to use a young mans murdered name (Jason Sweeny ) to make his case about how bigoted he really is!

                    Glad to dispute the ilks of people like you, Mr anonymous!

                    If these are the people Rob and Kenneth stand beside and collect in their commenter mischief, glad and thankful to to be not in that club of thought.

            • Norma, you are lower than the sediment in a septic tank. Such personal attacks on Moorcat do NOTHING to advance your lie, and nor do they convince anyone with a brain.

              ==The military is contracting.
              ==Fewer troops.
              ==Less need for officers as forces shrink.
              ==Budgets have shrunk.
              ==Military is make investment decisions as to were to have ROTC.

              Nothing sinister or underhanded. You insult people of the south with your nonsense, but fail to realize only YOU reveal your lack of education and worldliness with your insults.

              Cowgirl, is this really the quality of discourse you want?????

          • I think the links that have been provided show quite clearly that moorcat’s position is based on fact while your information is based on rumor and word of mouth. Norma Doofy loses again.

            • Naw, Weak try though at insulting me! Afraid of a smart woman?
              Your painful attempts at wit without a name attached…..

              Clearly Abe thinks he’s hot shit on a stick with rice. I do agree with the shit part, though, and I definitely have my suspicions about that stick…why else would he use a fake name?

              • If you had an ounce of brains to show someone being “afraid” of a smart woman, you might have a point. You don’t, Duffy. I completely agree that Kenneth has shown facts and you have nothing but bluster. Are you going to go all Ad Hom on me because I don’t use my real name? Didn’t think so.

                Why don’t you, for once in your sad stupid life actually shut up and listen to what others have to say?

                • Whose stupid life would that be Rob? I know you are not talking about me because, you don’t even know who I am. I play my cards a little closer to the heart then you and your brother have…. because I don’t have to prove anything

                  Pathetic try again at demeaning a woman who you can’t control.

                  Like Larry I am older than dirt, and like Larry I don’t care for crap

                    • Exactly Larry I dont even know what Craig is talking about, I look forward to the generals of today self trimming. So far it has been unsuccessful, with the republicans continually fighting to fund tank building, while thousands of newly minted tanks set Idle. And Jets they don’t want or need being pressed into duty to the point the military is taking our current fighters and turning them into practice drones so our pilots have something to shoot at.

                      At a time when even our military is saying enough already… the republicans want more.

                    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 23, 2013 4:54 AM at 4:54 AM |
                  • If ‘not caring for crap’ is really a value to you, then why should you expect any one to care about your crap? You obviously expect others to care when you don’t. That’s not value. It’s arrogance.

                    • Wow I love this False equivalency bullshit that rolls off the tip of your fingers here Rob….Goes something like this: “While I can call people assholes and snowflakes or cupcakes, youre not allowed the same leeway, because I am quite frankly better than you are as a man at saying it.”

                      Don’t mind me folks while I am just pointing out, The most obvious is of Robs consistent attitude toward me…. maybe I am a bitch?

                      Yep that might be true Rob.Cuz I dont need your validation to live on Rob? Maybe I have the right to forcefully disagree…. and then Damit woman I actually say it?

                      Thats actually what the “I don’t care” remark is really about Rob. Principles only mean something if I stick by them, even when they are inconvenient…….

                      “A ‘No’ uttered from deepest conviction is better and greater than a ‘Yes’ merely uttered to please, or what is worse, to avoid trouble.”

                      — Mahatma Gandhi

                    • Yes, abNormal. You have the right to be an idiot, an asshole. I never wrote otherwise. That you prove it time and again is the most amusing part of this whole exchange.

                      You have no principles. You have angry and bitter biases which you think the rest of us too stupid to recognize for what they obviously are.

                    • Again Rob, I would have to value your Opinion to be hurt by it. If I don’t value it. all the names you call me, and others when your wrong…. And your opinion of me are.. what….worthless? Yep thats about the jest of it.

                      Take your marbles, and go home now

  14. I guess you have never been to the Santa Barbara area of California Craig? The area is Small in Population for that state, Rural. Or did you forget that California is the third biggest state in the union. and the largest agricultural state in the US? Its not all city Craig.

    1 place in southern california, rural, Republican also!

    • Again Norma, you like. UCSB has an enrollment of about 22000.

      UCSB, the University of California at Santa Barbara, ranks highly among the nation’s public universities. UCSB has wide ranging strengths in the sciences, social sciences, humanities, and engineering that have earned it membership in the selective Association of American Universities.
      Percent of Applicants Admitted: 46%
      What Are Your Chances? (from
      UCSB GPA and Test Score Graph
      Test Scores — 25th / 75th Percentile

      SAT Critical Reading: 540 / 650
      SAT Math: 560 / 680
      SAT Writing: 540 / 660

      ACT Composite: 24 / 30
      ACT English: 23 / 30
      ACT Math: 24 / 30

      • correction. s/b “lie” not “like.”

        • Craig its a big school, in a rural area, Just like Chico, Just like Cal Poly used to be before urbanization caught up there too. You dont know shit about California dude. UC Davis and the town sits surrounded by Rice and corn fields, tomato fields that go on forever. These are still considered rural towns. just like Fresno and stockton.

          Montana 1 million population, California 38 million. Are you a hillbilly Craig. have you ever left this state????

          You know you’re woefully wrong about this Craig, only 70 ROTC officers from 3 years among 20,000+ kids…. Do you not see one of the reasons they closed it there as well? Kids who couldn’t get a college degree without ROTC help. Not officer material, Not really!

          Another reason, in the south In the ROTC academies—the schools that train military officers were closed—reports of sexual assaults jumped by 23 percent in 2012, the third year in a row of such increases. If student officers are assaulting their comrades at such a rate, how will they go on to treat minorities subordinates?

          Craig You’re arguing complete bullshit here. Better start reading a little more than one article Graig about a subject before you open you mouth!

  15. Just scrolled through the comments, couldn’t get past the Duffy & Kralj vomit. Hope I didn’t miss anything entertaining or informative.

    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 1:48 PM at 1:48 PM |

      Ha, ha, ha! Abe Afroman, would you please write something entertaing and informative that AIN’T vomit? I’ll wait……….


      That Afroman. Such a I kidder. I kinda like that!

      • Well its a one of our white Dave Craig or Mark frothers again. When they can’t win an argument for the extreme right on the merits, or at least be funny……..They fall back to name calling and synonyms.

        Ho Hummmm so boring!

        • It’s so boring, you can’t turn away. How’s your bipolar coming these days?

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 7:59 PM at 7:59 PM |

            How’s your bi-SEXUAL cumin now days, Skin flute?


            Oh, I’m sorry….NOT! I won’t assk, so don’t tell!

            bwahhahahahahahahaha! Fun with morons!

  16. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers | October 22, 2013 1:52 PM at 1:52 PM |

    Good thing I shaved my balls AFTER all! The Teabaggers are makin’ a comeback!

    I got dibs on the angry fat lady!

  17. Here is something informative larry, if you go to the tiny url website you can post your never ending string of links in a format that wont unnecessarily enlarge / elongate the blog and make the blog unreadable in mobile format (at least any more unreadable than your normal commenting does).

  18. Again Imposter, Like it or not I am not leaving anytime soon. You’re the very kind of cowardice I rally against!

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