Posted: November 13, 2013 at 10:23 pm

Two Facts Republicans Are Hoping You Never Find Out

You can’t pick up a rock these days without encountering a misinformed mob of RWNJs repeating Fox News anger points about the Affordable Care Act. The main themes lately are cancelled junk plans and bad information about prices. 

First, we go to the right-wing media frenzy around the “cancelled insurance plan” story arc.   What Republicans are hoping that nobody tells you is this.  Before the reforms were passed, insurance companies had been turning away about 20% of people who wanted to be insured.    These were people who had pre-existing conditions, people who were considered good customers until they got sick and the bills came in, or people that the insurance companies thought would be likely to have higher cost health care needs.

So when you read in the NY Times that hundreds of thousands of people in the individual market are receiving cancellation notices– from insurance companies who had been selling plans that actually provide very little coverage mind you–remember this. The individual market is made up of 19 million people.  So if hundreds of thousands lose a junk plan now, that’s about 5% of the market – not 20% who were refused, kicked, off, or denied before.   Besides, new consumer protections mean that losing a bad plan no longer can means you can’t get health care.  Insurers can no longer refuse to cover 20% of Americans.  They can no longer refuse people who hadn’t had insurance in a while, and they can no longer kick you out if you get sick.

Then there’s the specter of the crazy astronomical rate increases, or “rate shock.”  The facts don’t support this one either.  You see, here in Montana, we got better rates. Prices are lower now than they were before the new health care law.

For the first time, we’re getting some competition in the market.  Before the ACA, one insurance company controlled most of the market share:  Blue Cross Blue Shield.  Now, there are three companies, and this exchange “marketplace” competition has resulted in competitive prices.    There are a couple of reasons for this.  First, because companies can no longer turn people away to increase profits, they’re competing over price instead instead of what they call “risk selection”–cherry-picking the people a company bets are least likely to get sick.

Besides, in most states in the U.S. the past, there were false price standards due to the practice of male vs. female quoting, discriminatory prices based on whether you were a woman or a man, which is now illegal.  Many states allowed companies to change lower prices for some (men) and increase them for others (women) so people had a false sense of what insurance actually cost.

Of course, we all know that the reason some of these myths are so pervasive is that the president has basically sat back and let the opposition frame the entire discussion about the Affordable Care Act.  Doing so was a grave mistake.  In politics, it doesn’t work to play “correct the record” after the fact by digging into the minutia of a complicated policy to “educate” people over to your point of view – and Obama isn’t even doing that much.

The myths won’t go away until the President stops letting everyone else define the debate.  The truth won’t start to spread until people start telling their friends about the $25/month health plans they got–and of course, until the website starts working more consistently.

119 comments

  1. Publius II

    1. All veterans already enrolled in the VA are AUTOMATICALLY qualified under the ACA, and will NOT be fined or punished contrary to Fox News, so I encourage everybody to get non-enrolled veterans – even if you’ve never had military related injuries and especially YOUNG vets – into the VA immediately. Those without service connected health problems or severe disabilities would be strongly advised to go the exchange and find better choices now than the JUNK that’s been peddled by th Insurance vultures.
    2. I received a cancellation letter (just like the three I received long before ACA was enacted, where ‘fly by night’ insurance vultures could’nt squeeze enough profit out of Montanans and fled, and I had a ‘Junk’ policy that ONLY covered me and spouse for just catastrophe, and NO co-pay, wellness, etc, and a deductible of $10,000 so having this ‘junk’ was just so
    my we wouldn’t lose our small business due to major health problems, hospitization, etc. I went to my insurance agent I’ve had for over ten years and we got right onto the exchange and if you already have an agent (or just search the YELLOW PAGES) or not, there ARE trained agents who do get a ‘piece of the action’ and my agent was able to get me thru the process and with credits for my modest AGI (adjusted gross income) I would get equivilent coverage over the ‘junk’ policy from the company that couldn’t meet the INTEGRITY requirements of ACA to take care of older kids, no refusal for pre-existing conditions and cap on care. So if folks want to keep there EXPENSIVE JUNK, they shouldn’t complain to Fox or Sista’ Sarah (the tea(t)baggers ‘beatchin’ babe anti-Popa half-guv) when they’re tossed or get their claims denied.

  2. Publius II

    Right about President sitting back on defense getting HAMMERED,and progressives who want better angry about having to counter the lies when the White House should have been doing that, very tough in the trenches dealing with toxic tea.

  3. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    Holy Crap! The GF Spitoon actually did another real editorial today, and EVEN took a swipe at the Kockh funded heritage foundation! Incredible! I can’t wait to read to read the comments by the Teat Party inbreds! How can ANY one who isn’t a Kockh be against social security? How ’bout it, Dipshit Daines? You gonna “fix” sumthin’ that ain’t broke for us, Dipshit?

    http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20131113/OPINION/311130026/Our-opinion-Let-s-make-Social-Security-rock-solid

  4. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    GAWD I luv technology! I am not longer a technophobe! I can SEE how it will improve our lives! Oh sure, the Fundiwackmentalists like pat Robertson ain’t a’gonna like it one little bit, but what the hell, WE do!

    And with these advances in technology, if I ever decide to throw my hat in the ring for higher office, I have already decided on a platform. Here it is:

    A chicken in every pot, a car in every garage, and a chicken choker in every man’s home!

    Like it? Me too! And heck, if THAT don’t get me elected, NUTHIN’ will!

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/12/robot-handjobs-vr-tenga_n_4261161.html

    Twenty years from now, I predict that MOST sex will be virtual. And then, what are the Fundis gonna fume about? I dunno. I dunno!

  5. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    When Jonny McSenile calls you crazy, you KNOW you’re crazy! Poot widdle Baby Batista. He wants SO bad a return to the pre-Castro days in Cuba for our country! Jeez, everything was just so grand when Cuba had a dicktater and the mafia runnin’ things! You see, funny how that works, but when you have absolutely NO dissent, the trains really DO run on time………for the Big Kockh brothers! Everone else walks!

  6. Dave Skinner

    Right, so now men will cross-subsidize women, the young will cross subsidize the old. A perfect redistributionist world.

    • FrankH

      I love the all too predictable redistribution of wealth retort. What do you think insurance is in the first place? It’s a shared risk by a pool of participants. As to redistribution of wealth it defies description to watch you and your talk radio listening brethern defend a system that shunts 20% of Americans and the cost of their care onto the taxpayer. It’s the utter pinnacle of duplicity and hypocrisy that in almost one breath you’ll complain about wealth, taxes etc and go right to bat defending a corporate system that pushes off the very part of the market that just might be filing claims for care onto the backs of the taxpayers. The blinded rage over ‘liberalism’, ‘Obama’ and whatever other rant du jour has done it’s job just nicely. So, there you sit opposed to socialism while in fact defending corporate socialism (ie the risks belong to the public but our profits belong only to us). Here’s a thought, how about you start paying my part of the tax bill to treat and provide care for those bankrupted and/or discarded by the insurance companies you so richly love?

  7. Drunks for Bohlinger

    The biggest travesty of the ACA isn’t healthcare.gov. It is our idiot Republican legislators refusing to start a state exchange, where Montanans could avoid the crappy federal government website. What ever happened to the party that believed in placing states ahead of the federal government?

    • Moorcat

      No… the biggest travesty of the ACA was trying to find a private/public solution to a problem facing the entirety of the American population.

      What should have been done (and what still should be done) is replace the ACA with a very simple plan –

      1) Open the roles of Medicare/Medicaid to the general population. Those living under 70% of the poverty line should be allowed to enroll for free, those 70% – 140% of the poverty line should have to pay a prorated amount based on income and cost of the program. This would not only eliminate the idea of uninsured poor and working poor, it would also bring the Medicaid/medicare system into the black.

      2) Those wanting to opt out of the plan would be welcome to purchase their insurance at a private exchange. State are welcome to (but not required to) set up exchanges if they wish to reduce the cost of private insurance to those that opt out. No restrictions will be applied to those insurance plans. If private insurance companies want to change low rates for insurance plans that are crap, let them. Buyer Beware….

      3) Any medical facility that receives local, federal, or state moneys or is listed as a non-profit organization (enjoying tax breaks on the federal dime) will not be allowed to refuse Medicaid/medicare. If a private for profit institution wants to do so, it is up to them.

      4) Any doctor wanting to have their medical education bills (student loans ect) forgiven can sign an agreement to see medicare/Medicaid patients first as a general practitioner for five years. After that obligation is fulfilled, they can opt to do whatever they want and their school debt is forgiven. This would resolve the so called “doctor shortage”.

      This legislation would be approximately 50 pages, the infrastructure is already set up to accomplish this and it would give Americans the choice to do what they think is best.

      Problems solved and everyone is happy…

      • In2it

        Agreed. That’s a good list.

        I’d like to see what I’ve seen in other countries – walk-in clinics open to everyone at public expense as the first line of treatment. We need more and easier entry points into the system.

        Obama’s plan, with everyone carrying high deductibles and paying premiums on top of that, means that people avoid seeing doctors for small matters. We need basic triage, identifying small problems before they become big.

  8. d.miller

    The gov. knew years ago that millions of people would be canceled by their insurance companies.
    Also about% of doctors surveyed said they would not be serving patients under the a.c.a., and or they would retire – mearly in some cases.
    The proof is always in the pudding, and we will find out shortly how this is gonna work out…….

    • FrankH

      they can’t keep their hospital priveledges and refuse care, plain and simple this is just more mythical bullspit. The ACA is not an insurance plan it regulates how plans are sold by insurers proof again that whatever you’re listening to in order to be ‘informed’ has left you wanting. With 25 years in health care it is beyond imagination how easily misled and disinformed Americans are regarding healthcare, health insurance and the system as a whole. Politicians (regardless of spectrum) rely on the stupidity of constituents, voters and taxpayers and on this issue we’ve not disappointed them one bit.

    • Norma Duffy

      No they didn’t, Insurance companies are the only ones capable of knowing when they were gonna drop coverage. since they are the ones who invented built and have been selling junk policies for over a hundred years……

      • Moorcat

        In point of fact, the government did know that there were millions of insurance policies that wouldn’t meet the requirements of the ACA. The assumption at the time was that the insurance companies would bring their plans into compliance. Instead, the insurance companies decided to continue to bilk the American Public with crap insurance plans and then at the last minute, cancel those plans – while offering a plan that does meet the requirements at a much higher cost. The fact that the Administration of Congress didn’t see this coming is what amazes me. This is America… Capitalism at it’s finest. Buyer Beware…

        • Michael Searilika

          No Moorcat the Government didn’t know…. You are gonna have to point to some proof for me to believe that this wasn’t the Last hurrah of the insurance companies to topple ACA. So wheres your proof?

          We already have proof that the right wing hackers are trying their damest to topple the website. and our actually posting shit like:

          “Destroy Obama Care.
          This program continually displays alternate page of the ObamaCare website. It has no virus, trojans, worms, or cookies.
          The purpose is to overload the ObamaCare website, to deny service to users and perhaps overload and crash the system.
          You can open as many copies of the program as you want. Each copy opens multiple links to the site.
          ObamaCare is an affront to the Constitutional rights of the people. We HAVE the right to CIVIL disobedience!”

          ARS Technica reports:

          In a blog post published Thursday, Arbor researcher Marc Eisenbarth said there’s no evidence Healthcare.gov has been subjected to any significant denial-of-service attacks since going live last month. He also said the limited request rate, the lack of significant distribution, and other features of the tool’s underlying code made it unlikely that it could play a significant role in taking down the site. The tool is designed to put a strain on the site by repeatedly alternating requests to the https://www.healthcare.gov and https:www.healthcare.gov/contact-us addresses. If enough requests are made over a short period of time, it can overload some of the “layer 7″ applications that the site relies on to make timely responses.

          http://www.zdnet.com/new-dos-attack-directed-at-healthcare-gov-7000022940/

          This is only gonna get worse from the militant right side. Not only are we as a nation, having to fight DOS viruses and Trojans from our countries enemies, we now see a group of right wing people spreading crap around in our counties system architecture to slow down or stop the normal functioning of the Government. As a Communications expert in the Marines I can tell you, if that happens. It will be considered domestic terrorism, and in all actuality it already is being handled as such.

          http://www.zdnet.com/new-dos-attack-directed-at-healthcare-gov-7000022940/
          http://www.e-ir.info/2013/09/02/the-threat-of-cyberterrorism-to-critical-infrastructure/
          http://www.ctc.usma.edu/posts/defining-cyberterrorism-capturing-a-broad-range-of-activities-in-cyberspace

        • In2it

          I don’t pay much attention to mainstream news, and so only get a distant view. But it appears that all of this government website crap, the movements in the House, the president’s weakness, all combined will lead us to only possible conclusion: the government cannot run insurance. That appears to be the objective of this particular PSYOP.

          I’m kind of resigned to corporate victories in these matters, as ACA itself was a huge corporate victory. It prevented single payer, which was on the way at state level. That appears to have been Obama’s objective, the reason he was hired.

          But this is playing out as politics normally done in this business-run country – aggressive Republicans, weak-kneed Democrats and the population at large attacked from the right and weakly defended by the “other” party.

          Caught in the vice again.

    • Moorcat

      As far as the “40% of doctors”, that is talk and talk is cheap. In the end, doctors will go where the money is. If there are enough patients enrolled in the ACA or Medicaid, a practicing doctor will take what patients they can get. Student loan payments on a medical degree are not small, mortgages are not small and doctors will treat the patients they have. In fact, the doctors making those claims are already treating patients that have the same insurers they will have under the ACA and there won’t be any difference to the doctor.

    • FrankH

      whether originating with yourself or elsewhere it’s either a made up figure or just an outright lie to prove a preconceived notion. I challenge you to source your ‘information’. I work in healthcare and don’t know of a single physician who has said they are ‘quiting’ or refusing care once the ACA is implemented. You really should stop reading chain emails and having ah hah moments because of them. The only physician who could possibly refuse care or a form of insurance is one in complete and total private practice with no hospital priveledges and does not accept medicare … about the only ones who fit that bill are plastic surgeons with day surgery clinics and they aren’t actually ‘treating’ people with illnesses anyway. The law does not and has not for many years allowed a facility to accept medicare patients and reimbursements while selectively choosing to provide care based upon insurance or ability to pay. You are a prime example of the all too familiar instant expert on healthcare when in reality it takes about 15 seconds of speaking with someone like yourself to realize you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Frank, please stick around. Your comments are very interesting, and you definitely bring a perspective to the conversation.

    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

      No need, cowgirl, I’ll ban myself! Won’t be the first, nor the last, time that I will be banish SHED! ‘Sides, I kinda like the wilderness! Me and Jesus, forty days and forty nights otter do it!

  9. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    Sumbitch! No one. NO ONE! Laughs at Baby Batista! That makes me so mad that I want to start yanking some peoples’ EYE balls out! JUST like the real Batista! What the freakin’ hell is WRONG with Murca when we laff at Jaysus’s own representatives here on Earth! I’m agin’, it! And I say that we BATISTA these commie bastards who laff! Yank their freakin’ EYES out and we’ll see how long they laff!, jus’ like the real Batista! Murca, love it or move to commie CUBA!

    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/14/watch-forum-audience-laugh-at-ted-cruz-for-claiming-he-didnt-want-a-shutdown/

  10. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    See! THIS is what happens when you allow no good commie bastards run the show! While THEY’RE enjoyin’ their retirement with some long haired, luscious, blonde, nubile, delicious, Scandahoovian beauty in a freakin’ SAUNA!. YOU get the pleasure of knowin’ that you’re contributin’ to the well- being of the Big KOCKH brothers! Now, be honest. Don’t you feel better knowin’ that you’re helpin’ the less fortunate Big Kockhs then wastin’ time slatherin’ UP some golden haired beauty in a sauna with sensual oils?! We’re MURCANS goddamnit! We’re number one! We’re number one! We’re number one!……and number two, as in teacher, I gotta do number two!, in regards to our old folks!

    http://thiscantbehappening.net/node/2042

    Come ON, you ignernt inred southern transplant bastards! Figure it OUT, dudes! Let’s take care of OURSELVES for a change in STEAD of the Big Kockhs!

  11. Moorcat

    In an interesting turn of events… Because BCBS held pretty much a monopoly in Montana, most state and federal plans revolved around BCBS. With the advent of the Exchanges, a number of newer (well, newer to Montana) players are getting into the game. Now there are new insurance policies available to Federal and State workers and since the signup for our yearly program is fast approaching, my wife and I are looking at them now. It appears that we can get a MUCH better plan (lower deductible, lower copays), more coverage (both in and out of network – something our BCBS plan didn’t do at all) and better prescription care (lower costs for the prescriptions we need) with another company all for the same (actually about a buck less a month) than BCBS. If this is the result of the ACA, I am all for it.

    • In2it

      We’re having different experiences here, probably due to different ages (I’m 63 and almost free of the system), and in different states (in Colorado there have always been many different insurers).

      But what I found was that the policies are not much different (I tested 12) except for one feature: as I paid more in premium to buy down the deductible, the total cost (including premium) of out-of-pocket medical expense went up. The insurers are caught in a trap: the $6,350 max out-of- pocket (without regard to premium) limits them in their ability to distinguish themselves from each other in any manner other than marketing techniques.

      What has changed is that the overall quality of standard policies has gone down, as we’re all now required to pay anywhere from $9-12,000 annually before we have any coverage. The policy premiums now are merely royalty payments to gain access to the system, but the out-of-pocket feature discourages people from entering the system. They are still gaming us, but not as bad as before. This reinforces the notion that insurance companies should not even exist, as they do not provide a social good. They are mere rent seekers. This is the fatal flaw of ACA, to allow them to write their own ticket.

      “Cadillac” policies (offering what is known in other countries as “basic care”) are gone now, and this is what people are screaming about – not the loss of crap policies. We are all under-insured. But crap policies are gone too – 6-month renewables, hospitalization only, cancer policies – all of that garbage is replaced now with better garbage.

      From a marketing standpoint, they are enticing people to buy down the deductible as a means of maximizing profit. But the policies are not materially different. In monopoly capitalism, companies form de facto cartels and avoid competition on any other basis than marketing techniques. Competitors are friends, customers are the enemy. ACA has not changed that essential feature of the insurance cartel.

  12. Craig Moore

    Looks like Democrat Monica Lindeen is royally pissed at Obama. http://www.flatheadbeacon.com/articles/article/lindeen_slams_presidents_decision_to_allow_old_health_plans/36558/

    “The president and I agree on one thing: The rollout of the Obamacare website has been rocky. But far from smoothing over those bumps, his announcement today that health insurance issuers may choose to continue coverage that would otherwise be terminated or cancelled causes a lot of confusion for Montana’s insurance market.

    For three years, Montana’s insurance companies and my office have been working to transition health care in this state to cover more Montanans, more fairly. This announcement throws everything on its head.

    I am in the process of deciding what authority I have or I don’t have. I am also in conversations with Montana’s insurance companies to see how this announcement affects their business plans and Montana consumers.

    This kind of confusion is precisely why I have always fought for keeping insurance regulation at the state level. We know our markets, our companies and our neighbors better than Washington, D.C. does.”

    • Cowgirl

      Well, she’s right. What Obama did today was dumb, unnecessary, and basically chucked consumer protections for the individual market out the window.

      • Craig Moore

        Cowgirl, your post, from which all these comments follow, is blatant political demagoguery while missing the big picture and the major dysfunctional issues. It’s not that Obamacare is broken, it’s that it has not been properly designed, built, and implemented. None of the goals are even the issue or debatable. After 3 years it is a trainwreck of a Rube Goldberg contraption. Just ask Baucus… or even Lindeen now.

        • Moorcat

          First, Craig, you are totally misrepresenting Baucus’s comment, but I will let that one slide for now.

          Second, you are also completely missing Cowgirl’s point (I am relatively sure, on purpose). While I agree with you that the ACA was improperly designed and implemented, it is, in fact a function of the blatant attempts by the Republican Nutjobs (like you seem to be of late) that have made this such a cluster. The fact that you fail to recognize it is the true “demagoguery”.

          I agree with Cowgirl that President Obama’s decision today is truly a sad thing and creates more confusion and uncertainty than just letting the system work the way it was intended. Personally, I think that eventually the American Citizens would have figured out that the insurance companies were screwing the American people royally over. Sadly, not the President has taken blame for something that plainly wasn’t his fault and given the insurance companies yet another avenue to screw us over. Government workers – like Lindeen – are now scrambling to figure out what they are suppose to be doing now.

          The whole Hybrid Private/Public compromise was a poor second to what should have been done in the first place, and I for one, am not at all surprised the Nutcases like Cruz and the Insurance companies have screwed it up. I have already posted what should have been done but, in this case, the Democrats screwed the pooch pretty well.

          Have your “I told you so” moment. Many batshit crazy rightwing nutcases are doing just that. You are all making what should have happened in the first place a more likely solution in the long run.

          • Craig Moore

            Here is Baucus’ “train wreck” comment. Decide for yourself. http://thehill.com/blogs/healthwatch/health-reform-implementation/294501-baucus-warns-of-huge-train-wreck-in-obamacare-implementation

            As to blaming politicos, it’s been 3 years to build this thing. That effort involves the professionals, not party faces. They have failed. Rolling this thing out half-assed has been a matter of ego, not leadership or effective policy implementation. A year’s delay was at the doorstep, and Obama refused. This was not ready for prime time. Did you see where the Helena diocese is dropping it’s group policy as many businesses are doing? This also came as a shock to Lindeen. These reactions were not contemplated by the ivory tower designers who have no grasp of reality.

            Now as to the medical school discussion you were having, y’all are missing that GRE positions are where the bottleneck is. http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2013/04/01/medical-students-residencies/

            • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

              “Rolling this thing out half-assed has been a matter of ego”, moore.

              Wow! I knew it. craig moore, smart guy, KNOWS a black man’s ego better than that man himself! Wow. Just wow. craig has gone from high school HALL monitor to adult EGO monitor! Maybe you should report this to the principal, craig! Sheesh. When you got nuthin’, go for the ridiculous! Pubbies, very funny little people!

  13. Norma Duffy

    It is amazing how Republicans have complained for years about there plan which works, because it has been doing flawlessly in Massachusetts. Whine all you want Craig it is first and foremost your plan you just dont like it now because a black guy is the president.

    • Moorcat

      As I have explained before, the issue isn’t in the number of doctors. In America, we have a higher percentage of doctors than most large countries. The problem is the number of general practitioners. Only about a third of our doctors are actually general practitioners. This is the opposite ratio to most other countries. Many of the experts in the field claim that the two biggest reasons for this is A) the medical profession is protected from free market forces in America because of our insurance based health care system and B) Insurance companies support the idea of specialists. Another factor often attributed to the reverse ratio is that America is the only country in the world where doctors enter the work force with the staggering debt that they do (Usually at or near $100,000 in school debt).

  14. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    FINALLY…. maybe……possibly……HOPEFULLY! The ONLY good thing about this giant cluster fawk called Max Fawkuscare is that maybe, finally, hopefully we can start talking about a REAL solution like single payer or medicaire for all! That is the only good I see coming from it! And the Dems would be smart to pick UP that stick right now and begin beating the shit outta the Pubbies and their insurance industry cronies with it! Ceaselessly, endlessly, POUND into peoples’ minds that Fawkuscare is the result of Pubbies and the insurance industry re FUSING to give you real health care reform by taking the profit out of it! Why SHOULD the insurance industry make HUGE profits off YOUR health care?

    Yes, profit IS a dirty word when insurance industry bastards are profiting off YOUR health misfortunes! It didn’t have to be this way, and it DOESN’T have to be this way! Dump Max Fawkuscare and start over! And if the ReePubes don’t want to join in, SCREW’em! For you see, if you frame the debate correctly, they will be done! ReMIND folks endlessly that Max Fawkuscare IS a Pube plan, NOT a Dem plan! For it was the PUBES that came up with the damn thing to benefit their cronies!

    It’s time, time to do the right thing. Now, the Pubes are gonna scream like hell that it will hurt the insurance industry. WHO GIVES A SHIT? Most Americans realize that the insurance industry is nuthin’ but a bunch-o predatory bastards! There will NOT be a lot of tears for them! There are endless horror stories out there about insurance companies NOT providing care! Everyone has one, or knows someone who has one!

    I work with a whole lotta folks from the public, and I have YET to hear anyone cheer for Fawkuscare. These are folks on the lower end of the economic scale and the working poor. To a person they cannot believe the rates that they’re gonna have to pay. The first question that they have is, “I thought that this was going to be ‘affordable’ care”! It isn’t, not for any of these folks. And they are pissed and scared, as is the entire country! Hell, only a dumbass like Max Fawkus could get things so screwed up! What an asshole! Remember, this is the SAME Max Fawkus who was a HUGE supporter of going into Iraq. How THAT turn out for Max?

    So, NOW is the time for responsible Dems to change the dynamics of the situation. The entire REST of the world has health care, and the ONLY reason that we can’t is because of the Pubes and the insurance industry! Time take the fight TO’em! The insurance industry did it to themselves. They could have done right by the American people, but THEY chose profit over doing right! I say it’s time to pull them off life support! If they make it on their own by actually providing a worthwhile product, fine. But if they succumb, it’s their OWN damn fault! That’s capitalism at its finest!

    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

      I envision some Harry and Louise commercials of my own, Harry and Louise, INSURANCE agents.

      (phone ringing)
      Harry: Hello, yes this is Harry, the insurance guy. You’ve got what? Cancer? GREAT! Oops, I mean that’s awful. I’ll be right over to see what we can do within the limits of your plan. Don’t do anything until I get there.
      (hangs up)
      Hey, Louise, you remember when I promised you a trip to Cancun? Well, babe, pack your bags and sun screen, ’cause we’za a’goin’!

      Louise: You mean MORE sick people? Great! I just LUV sick people! They make this job worthwhile! Honey, I’ll make the reservations! I luv you, and I luv all them sick customers we got too!

      Harry: Well, babe, sure it kinda sucks makin’ a good livin’ and HUGE profits off the misfortuners of others, but hey, SOME one has to do it! Might as well be us!

      (Harry and Louise embrace)

    • Moorcat

      I read an opt ed piece on CNN that pretty much sums up my views on this. In it, the author points out that the Dems have been trying too hard to meet the ultra right wing in “the middle” on large issues like health care. The results are usually some kind of monstrous hybrid private/public legislation that is, by it’s very nature unlikely to succeed. The author goes on to point out that the most successful social programs in American history were the ones that were simple – Social Security, the US highways system, the US parks system. All these advances were designed around the simple idea that a program doesn’t have to be complicated to accomplish a large goal.

      The Dems (and moderates) have to remember that the end result is what is important, not massaging the egos of the lunatic fringe. Design a simple solution to the problem and run with it.

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Exactly. And I have been following what you write closely, Moorcat, and you have been writing the best stuff out there regarding this issue.

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

          Here, Moorcat, here’s a guy that a conservative like you and a radical enviro lefty wacko like me can agree on I believe. I really like this guy. I will vote for him, bar none. For I see no one in either party close to his stature. Dipshit Daines wouldn’t make a decent-sized pimple on his ass!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KB4ADHbo6Yw

  15. Ed Walker

    Every several months I like to tune in to Cowgirl to see what the communists are blathering about these days. I do have to admit, I’ve been amused, even gitty watching “Lemming’s in Barry’s World” stars attempt to Baghdad Bob (appropriate name relation to you Cowgirl) the trainwreck we know as ObamaCare.
    What do you make of the latest constitutional crisis that “His Most Excellent Majesty” put us in with his press conference yesterday? Even Howard Dean is wondering if its legal. I’m sure there is nothing to see here, afterall Obama was a constitutional professor so at least he knows the constitution. Its all Bush’s fault.
    Has anyone asked how Lewis and Walsh would vote on the Upton bill which would do exactly what Obama is proposing? This is going to be a fun campaign year.

    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

      Eddy ol’ boy, and the Pube answer to Obamacare is WHAT again? bwhahahahaahaaa!
      Sorry to laff at you, dude, but you really are funny as hell! Edweirdo, did you REALLY forget that Obamacare is a ReePube plan? Guess you did. Guess you forget a lot. Guess that you never actually KNEW a lot. Guess that you’ve never had a CLUE let alone an answer to the health care situation. Guess that you’re a Pubbie in good standing! Am I right or what?

      You see, Edweirdo, you ReePubes are the sorriest sumbtiches around! Get sick and die is NOT health care, reetard! But seriously, wanker, ex PLAIN your “plan” for health reform in great detail so’s you DON’T look like the imbecile that you appear to be! I’ll wait, but I’m sure you’ll chicken out! You see, Edweirdo, THIS site ain’t for the weak of heart and the bullshitter types like you!

      Good luck, lucky!

      • Ed Walker

        The Republican plan is called the Free Enterprise System. That’s just 3 words instead of 2655 pages of central planning. By the way, the word “free” means freedom, not somebody else pays your freight.

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

          BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!

          Too funny, eddy. Too funny! BTW, one more time, eddy. HOW MUCH of that hated gummint money YOU suckin’ up, dude? Ya see, you DON’T get to call yourself a Teat party member if YOUR lips are attached to Unca Sugartit!

        • Norma Duffy

          Dear Ed we have been socialist for years public schools Public Libraries, Public roads and streets, Police, firefighters, social security, medicare, where have you been under a rock?

          Your kind of freedom, doesn’t want any of the above. I suggest Iran for you Freedom fighters to move too. They already encompass everything you want in a country, and everything America fought against!

        • Dick Hammer

          Ed, when you say something on here that isn’t in line with the group expect to be attacked. They don’t like the view from another perspective.

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

            Wow! Now that was a brilliant comment, dicky! Now, say sumthin’ intelligent in wanker’s defense! You see, wanker says he doesn’t want anyone else to “pay his freight”, what EVER in the hell that means! You see, edweirdo wanker is an idiot! AND, he refuses to be truthful.

            So, here’s your challenge, dicky. Just WHAT THE HELLO does that mean, “pay your own freight” in regards to health care? And two, WHAT is eddy wanker’s occupation that does NOT get gummint money? And three, how MUCH of that hated gummint money is eddy suckin’ UP offn’ Unca Sugartit?

            Start there, dicky. Start there! Or if you have an opinion of your own, post it! For you see, being a Teat Party member does NOT confer upon one the right not to be challenged on their bullshit! MOST Teat Party members are suckin’ large off the hated gummint, and MOST are uneducated dolts! Prove me wrong, dude. Prove me wrong! Write sumthin’ smart! I’ll wait.

      • Lucy

        Larry, like you would even be interested in the Republican answer to Obamacare-much less anything else. And Ed, I like to visit this site from time to time too as opposing viewpoints are “interesting.” However, family, work, and a variety of other activities keep me better focused. I guess in reading all these posts I just wonder, if the ACA is so fantastic and better than anything in the entire world, why the exemptions for congress and unions? And since when does a sitting President of the United States “allow” any American business to do business in this nation just be virtue of declaring it so? Crazy. And furthermore, if the Free Market System is so terrible, why isn’t the USA a third world country? This nation has done a great deal to better the lives of others through out the world. Does that make America perfect? Certainly not. But a Free Market System is at the heart of “American Exceptionalism.”

        Have fun with bashing remarks. I may or may not have time to read them!

        • Ed Walker

          Hear hear Lucy! Those who are sympathetic to the Tea Party principles typically don’t want anything from government. Those who rail against the Tea Party (including all Democrats and way too many Republicans) are getting something from government. That’s reality.

          • Turner

            I don’t know how old you are, Ed. But if you’re not already getting SS or Medicare or Tricor or VA benefits, you’ll belly up to the trough eventually. You and your Teabagger friends love you those benefits.

            If you live in Montana, you should know that we take in much more money from the fed than we pay out. We’re a taker state. Blue states (NY, CA, NJ, MA, WA, et al) are giver states. Red states, those full of racist inbreds, are big moochers.

            • Michael Searilika

              This Ed guy, is totally off his Rocker. Hey Ed do you really know what the difference is between a communist and a socialist is?

              Do you realize that our forefathers wanted healthcare and a payroll tax to pay for merchant marines and sailors? Well? Ed do you ever read outside of Brietbart and other red meat websites? Do you know the history of the United States, or are you just farting out GOP talking points?

              In July of 1798, Congress passed – and President John Adams signed – “An Act for the Relief of Sick and Disabled Seamen.” The law authorized the creation of a government operated marine hospital service and mandated that privately employed sailors be required to purchase health care insurance.

              Alexander Hamilton supported the marine hospitals so did his nemesis Thomas Jefferson, along with his Treasury Secretary, Albert Gallatin, they in fact took steps to improve the mandated insurance.

              It was a payroll tax that all sailors on private merchant ships had to pay, and in return, they were basically given access to a small public health-care system. But it was, in essence, a regulation against a form of inactivity: You were not allowed to not do something, in this case, pay for sailor’s health insurance. ~Ezra Klien~ http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2011/01/the_founders_health-care_manda.html?wprss=ezra-klein

              You Tea Party Sadists would do good to go back to school. The history of our country is well documented, for any person who knows how to turn a page.

              I myself would welcome a payroll tax if it lead to Medicare for all, or single payer. The majority of Americans want it as well.

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

            MR. WANKER!, you still haven’t answered the question, Teatard. How MUCH of that hated gummint money you suckin’ UP, cupcake? Now, please list the job that you have that is NOT affected by gummint largesse? You’re simply and ignernt pretender, dude. And that is painfully obvious!

            • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

              p.s. Edweirdo Wanker, I’m STILL waiting for a scholar like you to NAME a Greek tragedy! What? You’re an uneducated dolt? I never would have suspected that!

              bwwhahahahahahaahahahhaa!

              Problem is that you can NOT have a serious discussion with reetards, for they are uneducable! Wanker is the perfect example. Need proof? Watch this.

              Hey, Wanker, say sumthin’ smart!

              bwhahahahahaahahahahahahaaa!

              • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

                The Francis effect??? SumBITCH! This is something Edweirdo Wanker and his Wankerettes wouldn’t understand! And hell, the TRVTH be known, I can’t understand it myself! But I am familiar with the Jesuits, who are ONLY nominally Catholic anyway. (I’m admittedly an agnostic, but then, so are my Jesuit brethren! And when Pope St. Frances of Assisi told me that MY atheist ass had a short at heaven too, well HELL, THAT won me over! I like the guy! What’s NOT to like about Pope Frances?! (anyway, the BV is kicking in, so’s I better rap this up)

                The reetard TEAtards have the pervy Pat Roberston as their spiritual inbred leader. I kinda like my Jesuit pal and Pope, Pope Frances of Assisi! I would luv to meet him be FORE the mafia bastards assassinate him! Oh well, maybe in the afterlife! Go, Pope dude! The Ranger’s got your back! FUCK them faggots in the funny uniforms! Call in the Environmental Rangers for your guards!….and you’re survive!

                http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/11/16/why-even-atheists-should-be-praying-for-pope-francis/

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

          Lucy goosey, you are not worthy to post here by virtue of your lack of education! Sorry to be so blunt, but is shows! For you see, we can NOT educate you! That should have been done looong ago! So, enjoy your Teat Party retardation! It’s all you have left!

          Sorry to be so blunt, but it’s necessary. A person should KNOW their limitations! And yours are painfully obvious! Maybe you and Edweirdo Wanker could correspond!

          Hope this helps. For you’ve nothing to add of substance.
          .

    • W.H.

      Mr. Walker, Your comment is so full of what are (presumably) TEA Party buzzwords that it no longer appears to mean anything… care to clarify in English?

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Mr. Wanker, like a good Elvis impersonator, has LEFT the building! bhwhahahahahaahhahaha! I’m sorry, but I shouldn’t laff at the Teat Party, for they are very serious peeple! Mr. Wanker never met a Teat Party talking point that he didn’t like! Saves on actual thinking, right Eddy??? Eddy, for the record, just HOW much of that hated gummint money you suckin’ up, cupcake? Oh, you GAVE it all back? Not hardly. Eddy is a Teat Party hypocrite!

        • W.H.

          Somebody should get a screenshot of Rep. Ed Walker’s comment. It needs to be recorded that this is how an elected representative of Montanans communicates…well tries to communicate.

        • Jan Thomas

          Well, we know Mr. Ed here gets government heatlhcare paid for by the taxpayers of Montana.

          In fact, in 2013:

          Over 140 of the 150 legislators either avail themselves of taxpayer-funded state employee health insurance or use the same monthly payment ($733) to offset the cost of their own private health insurance. And, guess what? Legislators receive health insurance the day they are sworn in, unlike many Montanans who must wait health insurance. Unlike most Montanans, legislators do not contribute to the monthly health insurance premiums — the entire cost is paid for by Montana taxpayers. That amounts to $8,800 annually per legislator. That’s $1.23 million a year — nearly $2.5 million for two years. Not bad, considering that the Montana Constitution limits us to 90 days of work ever other year.

          http://mtstandard.com/news/opinion/what-about-legislators-health-insurance/article_2d1045c2-b2bf-11e2-a1de-001a4bcf887a.html

      • Ed Walker

        Didn’t you hear that the Tea Party died last month? Obama decreed it so because his signature achievement was settled law. Now he’s telling insurers to ignore his law. Watching the Democrats is like watching a Greek tragedy.

        • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

          Eddy ol’ boy, do you even KNOW any Greek tragedies? Methinks you’re a pretender, dude, and that’s real sad. For lots of folks here really ARE quite educated! What was your highest grade level achieved again? Just for the record.

    • Surelyyoujest11

      As a Republican, I am embarrassed by the juvenile name-calling of an elected official. Grow up already Ed Walker.

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Sorry, Shirley, I think that poor ol’ Eddy is TOPPED OUT! He ain’t gonna grow no mo! What you see is what you get, and that’s just real sad! Wonder what his highest grade level achieved was? Third, maybe?

    • Moorcat

      As much as Ed Walker seems a complete and blithering idiot, there is a small germ of truth to what he is saying that I somewhat surprised that people here aren’t discussing it.

      In short, President Obama cannot unilaterally change a piece of federal legislation. You can pretty it up all you want, but at the end of the day, that is what he is talking about.

      The regulations for minimum insurance coverage was a significant part of the ACA. This is what is behind all these policies getting cancelled. To amend the ACA to allow those policies to continue would be a function of Congress, not the President of the United States. If this isn’t done by Congress, there WILL be a challenge – and there should be. The President is not a dictator and the separation of Powers is pretty clearly defined in the Constitution. Dems and Rebpubs alike should be protesting this action as a severe act of Presidential overreach.

      Just as important, it should be mentioned that even if this decision by the President stands, it doesn’t necessarily solve anything. The decision still lies with the insurance companies. Many of these companies stand to make a small (and in some cases HUGE) fortune off cancelling their faulty policies and selling their customers new ones at an inflated price. One company (United Health of California) is expected to make tens of millions of NET profit if only 50% of their policy holders opt to buy into the new policies. Many insurance companies are not going to be willing to walk away from that kind of profit.

  16. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    Thanks, Max Fawkus! Fawkuscare was such a great innovation! Saved millions, millions of lives! Well, not actually lives, but DOLLARS for your corporate benefactors, Max! Lives, dollars, dollars, lives! What DIFFERENCE does it really make in the long run? If you’re fucking DEAD, you don’t care one way or the other! Thanks, Max Fawkus! You and your Pube cronies fawked us REAL good this time!

    http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/donna-smith/52705/health-economists-ignore-working-class-realities

  17. Sam

    Not sure where NY Times is getting their info that only a couple hundred thousand people have received notices, because Forbes, NBC News, Washington Post, and numerous other outlets all have figures of around 5 million cancellations. Why are they “junk” policies anyway? Many of these canceled policies met the needs of the policy holder, just because the policies didn’t cover what you think they should or would meet your needs, doesn’t make them “junk”. Let the person that had that coverage make that decision. Also, I have not talked to one person that has seen their health insurance prices fall. In fact everybody I’ve spoken to has said the opposite, including my own insurance. One person I spoke to was laid off from their job and paying for Cobra insurance. They found the health exchanges for equal coverage was higher than he was paying for Cobra. Just like your claims of Fox News, just because you say it…..doesn’t make is the truth.

  18. Norma Duffy

    Sam Most junk Policies are nothing more than a discount card for a doctors visit or Medicine. As Bill Maher explains it so succinctly, its the Hospital gown policy, covering everything but your ass.

    Junk plans offer only discounts or pay a small, fixed amount and do little else. People like you don’t realize the financial protections aren’t there. the companies are dropping you because they don’t offer anything in the new Patient bill of rights, which are:

    1, Ban on Discriminating Against Kids with Pre-Existing Conditions
    Before reform, tens of the thousands of families have been denied insurance each year for their children because of an illness or condition. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, plans cannot discriminate against kids with pre-existing conditions. In 2014, no one seeking coverage can be discriminated against because of a
    preexisting condition.

    2.Ban on Insurance Companies Dropping Coverage
    Before reform, insurance companies could cancel your coverage when you were sick and needed it most because of a simple mistake on your application. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, insurance companies are banned from cutting off your coverage due to an unintentional mistake on your application.

    3. Ban on Insurance Companies Limiting Coverage. Before reform, cancer patients and individuals suffering from other serious and chronic diseases were often forced to limit or go without treatment because of an insurer’s lifetime limit on their coverage. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, insurance companies can no longer put a lifetime limit on the amount of coverage, so families can live with the security of knowing that their coverage will be there when they need it most. The use of annual limits will be restricted and will be banned completely in 2014.

    4. Ban on Insurance Companies Limiting Choice of Doctors Before reform, insurance companies could decide which doctor you could go to. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, if you purchase or join a new plan you have the right to choose your own doctor in your insurer network.

    5. Ban on Insurance Companies Restricting Emergency Room Care
    Before reform, insurance companies could limit which emergency room you could go to or charge you more if you went out of network. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, if you purchase or join a new plan, those plans
    are banned from charging more for emergency services obtained out of network.

    6. Guarantee You a Right to Appeal
    Before reform, when insurers denied you coverage or restricted your treatment, you were left with few options to repeal. With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, if you purchase or join a new policy, you will be guaranteed the right to appeal insurance company decisions to an independent third party.

    7.Covering Young Adults on Parent’s Plan
    With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, young adults will be allowed to remain on their parent’s plan until their 26th birthday, unless they are offered coverage at work. Up to 2.4 million young adults could gain affordable
    coverage through this provision of the new law.

    8.Covering Preventive Care With No Cost
    With the Patient’s Bill of Rights, if you join or purchase a new plan, you will receive recommended preventive care with no out-of-pocket cost. Services like mammograms, colonoscopies, immunizations, pre-natal and new baby care will be covered and insurance companies will be prohibited from charging deductibles, co-payments or co-insurance.

    • Craig Moore

      Norma, if you had a clue you would understand that coverage is determined by the RE-insurance market. The primaries are NOT the drivers.

    • Sam

      Norma, I never said there wasn’t anything good about the Affordable Care Act. What I was stating was the facts in the original post were not accurate and I questioned how other people can determine my coverage is junk. If the coverage works for me, it’s not junk. That’s my call, not yours or anybody else’s. And please do not quote Bill Maher, he is as far a left wacko as Rush is a right wacko.

      • Lynn

        Sam, did you ever anything major happen that you needed your plan? I was lucky, I never had to test mind, but when I thought I was having a heart attack in 2008, I got scared worse because I knew if I went to a hospital I’d be in debt for the rest of my life.

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

            YOU HAVE INSURANCE, SAMMY! You commie bastard! That means that SOMEONE is subsidizing your unhealthful ass! That’s socialism, dude. SOCIALISM! What part of socialism don’t you understand, dude?

            Yippers! You’re the perfect Teat Party dude! You expect OTHERS to carry your sorry ass, for that is exactly what insurance is, Sammy! Join the REST of us, Sammy, who are the REAL job creatin’ Murcans! We don’t HAVE health insurance, nor do we WANT any! We get sick and die! And you, YOU, you’re a pisspoor example for the YOUTH of our great nation!

            • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

              Let’s replace Obamacare with a Big Kockh, right, Sammy?
              Look, the Big Kockhs are givin’ us not only a big kockh, but a second opinion! Nuthin’ wrong with a second opinion, right Sammy?
              Bend OVER to get your second opinion!

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/20/koch-brothers-mark-begich_n_4312485.html

              But really, Sammy, I must ask you teatards the same question. Why are you so all fired fired UP to help the Big Kockhs in STEAD of your fellow Americans? I don’t get it. Do you?????

          • In2it

            Sam, even those of us who diligently read contracts are not aware of the implications of legal terminology. Insurance contracts are written by lawyers as a means of protecting insurance companies and controlling their risk. The only input that we have as clients is by means of our local regulatory agencies, who act as our attorneys. So your words that you know what is contained in your policy are honest, I’ sure, but perhaps a bit naive?

            From the right wing (which includes the “Democrats” who wrote ACA, i.e, AHIP), there is a constant push to limit the authority of regulatory agencies as a means of protecting corporations from citizens. (There is also constant pressure to place revolving door insurances execs in regulatory posts.)

            Bill Maher may be dumb as a bag of rocks, but on his show there is an ideological exchange. He tries very hard to bring in conservatives and right wingers, and those who appear are both courageous and confident, as they know they will face hostile audiences. I watch him because so many varied views are asserted, attacked and defended.

            • Norma Duffy

              So a lousy account, is knowingly practicing law without a license? is that what you’re trying to do here MArk, persuade Sam you know Federal and Montana law… because you clearly dont!

              Sam, get one the phone with people trained in Obamacare. the number is on the web site, and on Montana’s website for Montans as well.

              1-800-318-2596 they are available 24/7

              Montanas help line people : http://montanahealthanswers.com/talk-to-a-human/

              I promise you Sam– Mark, In2it, or what ever name he might use next week, does not have your best interests at hand (He has been Banned numerous times at this site for talking rubbish).

      • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

        Um, Sam, maybe you’re forgetting the Bill Maher IS a Republican! Or at least he was until the Pube crazy train left the station! There is no Republican Party left, dude. Hell, they were even too crazy for Barry Goldwater, whom they booed and laffed off the stage! How old are you, Sam? Do you NOT understand what the Pube party has evolved into?

        • Sam

          I really don’t care what party Maher claims to be a part of or was previously. Currently his views and comments have shifted far left. I agree that the Republican party is in shambles and stands for nothing anymore. Regardless, Republican/Democrat or Conservative/Liberal are just labels we give people that really mean nothing. What matters is what they say and do and Maher is nothing more than an actor saying stupid stuff to generate ratings, not somebody I would quote.

          • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

            True THAT, Sammy! Teat Party morons should NEVER be made fun of, even though they’re funny as hell! It’s just flatassed wrong to make fun ignernt, racist inbreds, for THAT is what Murca is all about! Ignorance, racism, bigotry, militarism, fundametnalism, greed, and corporate fascism! Wouldn’t you agree, Sammy? Oh, and JAYSUS! We shouldn’t leave out JAYSUS!, and the kooky pervy wackadoodle fundi preachers! I mean, after all, God is watching! He sees you in the morning, he sees you in the night, he knows if you’ve been bad or good so be good for goodness sake! Yes, Sammy, Dave better watch out!!

    • In2it

      Norma, we can all Google. We are all aware of what ACA does, and much of it is worthy and should have been done decades ago but wasn’t.

      The problem is the price we paid to get these things done that should have been done anyway: The private mandate, massive subsidies to private for-profit corporations, the trashing of a public option, taking single payer off the table.

      ACA took all of that away. It’s an enormous price to pay for finally making insurers behave themselves. A strong Democratic Party would have made those changes without selling us out in the process.

      • Norma Duffy

        Jeez Mark the only one who won’t print links is you…. so that means everyone uses google except for you?? You pretty much prove that everyday, don’t ya!!!!

        • Rob Kailey

          Please forgive me for weakly threatening your awesome authoritAY!, but wouldn’t your comment to Mark be more effective if you had posted a link in the listicle to which he was responding? He agreed with you, Norma. He just thinks the ‘rent is too damned high’.

            • In2it

              Don’t get off track here, Norma. You posted a long string of bullet points, most likely the result of a clip from another source.

              Not an issue. it would be nice is you linked, but most importantly, it establishes common ground. These are good things about ACA.

              My questions are 1) Why were these things not done before, as they address problems that have been debated in the public sphere for decades, and 2) They came at a very high price, so was it worth it?

              That’s all. Rob was succinct, me less so.

              • Norma Duffy

                Thats whats “Google” is for Mark, Those questions can be answered Quite easily without you posting a word salad to me. Secondly and most importantly here, the original answer was for Sam not you.

                The Patient Bill of Rights, or these particular answers 8 out of ten….has been in every newspaper and repeated on every television station since 2009….But obviously, You’re living under a rock Mark, and only bottom feeding off of right wing conspiracy sites. However, that doesn’t negate your responsibility to listen to what your government says, and take it with a grain of salt if necessary( such as news dump fridays, or daily press releases).

                But as with anything, “Anyone” says on a given day, it falls on deaf ears with you.You Ignore it, or talk over it. But people who want to hear and are inclined to read have been pounded with it in publication of some form for almost four years. Liberals, it seems are the only ones who know the “Patient Bill of Rights” by heart. Tea tards like you are only now fully understanding someone said something important. So read Mark for a change. Something besides propaganda… as the ACA is law now,and you can find the answer yourself. All your caterwauling will not change a federal mandated program.

                Amazing as it seems to you republicans still working hard to tear it down… this law benefits people. Closes the mawing Gap between rich and poor to only inches of what it was before medically. and although Its not perfect but it is working for people, who are moved enough to read simple instructions and apply. I have been signed up for a month now…. what happened to all that personal responsability you republicans say you want the rest of America to have, that you will not take the time to read or apply yourself???

                Robs comment, meanwhile was an irritating but funny Aside I couldn’t Ignore about you, it was the perfect straight man line and fun to play with. Nowhere though was I actually talking to you directly….so crawl back under your rock in Colorado.

                • In2it

                  The correction of abuses by insurance companies was long overdue, but your party did nothing. Then, with single payer threatening on the horizon, AHIP saw a threat, and started letting the politicians know it was time for “reform.”

                  Obama was very much in the pocket of AHIP in 2008, when I voted for him based on hope for change alone. However, reform was very limited – yes, they would stop their abusive practices, but only on these terms: No single payer, no public option, private mandate. Huge price. Huge.

                  By the way, instead of Obamacare, use its correct name: Romneycare.

                  As I see it now, everyone can buy insurance, but everyone will be underinsured. The $6350 max out of pocket coupled with premiums means that people will avoid seeing doctors, as they are already burdened and will nto be able to endure additional costs beyond that. It is true that they have a catastrophic policy in place, a good thing, but they still do not have access to basic health care.

                  You seem incapable of staying on subject, and are very reflexive in your answers, as when you googled the list you posted above as an answer to more complex matters with ACA. I gather you are not capable of dealing with complex issues, and also from reactions here from serious commenters, that they notice this too. They get quite annoyed with you, and you seem impervious to their legitimate criticisms.

                  For me, your repeated references to me as a Republican, “teatard,” right winger, only show me that you are a black/white thinker, capable of no more than hurling a few insults without ever getting down to the real substance of issues.

                  More of an answer than you warrant.

  19. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    I’m sorry. One should never laff their ASSES off at nazzis, for nazzis are very serious peeeple! But JUMPIN’ JAYSUS, this is just too funny for words! World class shitbag and sleeze ball erik princess blames the LIBRULS for ruining his nazzi bidness!

    bwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaa!

    WHAT A DOUCHESNOZZLE! And that’s all I got to say ’bout that!

    http://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/erik-prince-blackwaters-demise-due

  20. Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

    THANK YOU, MAX FAWKUS! Only a freakin’ moron like Max Fawkus could singlehandedly destroy the Dem party! He’s the George Bush of the Dems! But he done’er! And I say THANKS max, for we needed a good fawking! And the insurance industry needed more profits! It’s good for the economy, THEIR economy!

    Shit. We’re screwed! The Kockh Teat Party is gonna SCOOP up the senate and keep the house, ALL because of the disaster known as Fawkuscare! Was it worth it, Max?

    http://smirkingchimp.com/thread/norman-solomon/52757/the-obamacare-disaster-and-the-poison-of-party-loyalty

    Like eddy wanker says so cogently, we’ez all gonna have to “pay our own freight” now! Anyone have any idea what Mr. Wanker means by that?? I don’t.

    • Larry Kralj, Environmental Rangers

      bwhahahahahahahahahhaaaa!

      Yes, libs are TEAReebull people for calling an idiot out on her slavery remarks! Gosh, libruls are just SO mean!

      bwhaahhahaahahahahahahahahahhahaa!