Tagged: Jennifer Fielder

Posted: February 15, 2014 at 11:02 am

TEA Party Tries to Distance Itself from Ravalli Financial Scandal

You know things have gotten bad when it’s the TEA Party trying to distance itself from the Republicans instead of the other way around.

The Ravalli County TEA Party has contacted the Cowgirl Blog in an attempt to distance itself from Ravalli County’s infamous financial mismanagement scandal. As you know, Ravalli Commissioners appointed a treasurer who was heavily involved in local politics. Since then, the Bitterroot Star and other news outlets have reported on a dizzying array of examples of late or unmade payments and bills, uncollected taxes, backlogs, oddities, tens of thousands of checks stuffed in drawers, hundreds of thousands in undeposited payments–and unanswered requests for information on what exactly is going on from cities, schools, libraries, and fire departments.

A leader of the Ravalli County TEA Party group wrote in to say Continue reading

Posted: January 6, 2014 at 10:44 pm

You Can Run from the Wingnuts, But You Really Can’t Hide

Sen. Jennifer Fielder R-TEA Noxon
Sen. Jennifer Fielder R-TEA Noxon

The vice-Chair of the state Republican Party, Sen. Jennifer Fielder  promoted the gathering of an extreme anti-government group appeared as a keynote speaker at the group’s event. But when a reporter showed up, “she quickly distanced herself from [Defend Rural America leader Kirk] MacKenzie when asked about his extreme rhetoric and ideas,” which included that “neo-environmentalists” are “domestic terrorists.”  Fielder said that the group ideas weren’t what she thought they would be.

So now she knows, and there’s no longer a way to claim ignorance.

But Sen. Fielder must not be too upset about the group’s views. She’s invited yet another Defend Rural America speaker, Doyel Shamley, to present information to a legislative hearing this Wed, Jan 8. You can see that he appears under Fielder’s portion of the Environmental Quality Council agenda.

Shamley provided training and workshops for Defend Rural America’s secessionist county organizing drive in California.  He ran one of the Defend Rural America’s pilot projects, featured in this DFA white paper.

Shamley appears on the MT EQC agenda, billed as a “natural resource consultant.”  But Doyel Shamely is so much more.

Shamely is the host of a somewhat creepy conspiracy theory program which posits that politicians, lawmakers, members of the royal family, the illuminati and others have created a “New World Order” through which they attempt to control the thoughts and beliefs of everyday people–of course, there is connection to UFO’s and aliens visiting planet Earth.

His audio book, New World Order: The Battle for Your Mind and the Truth to the UFOs, is available for $10.95 at Amazon.com, but for some reason has no customer reviews.

Is there a New World Order? Are they trying to control every part of our lives? Are we treated like sheep?…Are they politicians, company directors, religious leaders, royalty, lawmakers, or all of the above and more? How old is their rule? And what secret organization do they belong to?

Perhaps more importantly, are UFOs actually visiting our planet? Have they been here for thousands of years? All this and more is constantly investigated by thousands of people around the globe and nobody more than the Hour of Our Time Show*[hosted by Shamely]…Are they trying to control our minds? Are they lying about the Alien Threat? You decide.

Indeed Fielder has decided that Montana’s lawmakers need to hear from this consultant–apparently no other natural resources speaker would do.

Yes, the truth sometimes has a way of coming out, but that hasn’t stopped Fielder from tried hide from and disassociate herself from the extremist views of these “expert consultants” she consorts with.

For example, Sen. Dick Barrett (D-Missoula) provided her with an email with information about the watershed consultant hired by TEA partiers to block a tribal water rights agreement negotiated by the state of Montana and the CSKT.  Kate Vandemoer (yes, this is the Usurpathoner) has a birther blog with some pretty extreme, marginal views–and some writings that reflect the soundness of her judgement.  But Fielder got angry and insisted that the contents of Vandemoer’s “personal” blog (whatever that might mean) were not relevant.  But in the same breath, she claimed that she had never read the blog.  I encourage you to read this informative chain of emails below the fold.

The most cursory review of Vandemoer’s very public blog (Dr Kate’s View) shows that Vandemoer uses it not only to promote her multitudinous and bizarre birther conspiracy theories, she also uses it to share her views on water and watershed politics.

In a post entitled “Watershed Politics” Vandemoer writes the following. (Apologies for the long passage but they illustrate this “expert’s” state of mind.)

the landscape of our America was shaped by our Constitution, the very blood and water of our country…Upon this hallowed ground–nothing more than a chessboard to some– a dark rain has fallen for decades…it is falling and now drenching.  I remember being in the wilderness for weeks on horseback, wondering what the black ‘goo’ was on the vegetation and the rocks…This foreign rain, and the raging torrents it produces, are attempting to capture that stream and dream known as America.  It is trying to erode our landscape, our system, in order to capture liberty and train it into a controlled system of slavery, where the course of everyone’s life is determined by a single train of thought–communism, new world orderism.  The NWO has intentionally created these devastating torrents to undermine sovereignty, liberty, and freedom…indeed I have felt that the very foundation of our country is threatened…and with increasing force.

Does the NWO think it is God, such that it can flood the world with poison rain and torrential rivers to destroy all of creation, and refashion it to its liking (and control)?

She uses the blog to share her belief that climate change is a diversionary tactic to keep the public from looking into a list of conspiracy theories: such as “weather modification by geoengineering“–Vandemoer believes the government is creating natural disasters so that it may “take over our lives.”  There’s also HAARP (a secret weapon conspiracy nuts think is used for weather modification. And don’t forget “chemtrails, and microwave pulses.”

So even if Fielder doesn’t scramble to distance herself from the conspiracies, or Vandemoer’s belief that, “the Rothschilds (translated ‘Red Shield), Rockefellers, and many other monied JKhazar Jews, who together form a cabal acting like a synagogue of Satan that is in full gear enforcing its agenda on America, including Agenda 21.”  Even if Sen. Fielder does not believe that these views call “Dr. Kate’s” judgement into question, Vandemoer’s views on water as a water consultant should give any sane person pause.

For tomorrow’s legislative meeting. Fielder has invited another extremist to town.  She’s asked Ken Ivory to the legislative committee tomorrow.  Ivory is the Utah legislator who carried a bill requiring the Federal government to cede much of its land in Utah to the state.

This guy Ivory has already appeared in Ravalli County.  Actually, he’s been touring around pushing this idea to other states at ALEC conferences too–legislative language is conveniently available now in ALEC boilerplate. Montanans will remember this idea as one of the infamous nutjob bills of the 2011 legislature, sponsored by Derek Skees.

Unfortunately for Ivory (and ALEC), Utah’s Office of Legislative Research and General Counsel had to go and point out a pile of pesky case law with regard to public lands going back to the 1870s that gives the bill “a high probability of being declared unconstitutional.” And the Salt Lake Tribune has called Ivory’s effort “tilting at windmills.” Arizona rejected it.  The bill was vetoed by TEA Party Governor Jan Brewer. In Montana, the bill didn’t even make it out of committee.

But the GOP loves to throw these kinds of pointless proposals out there, in spite of the fact that it is a complete waste of public resources to do so.  It’s political grandstanding to rally the extreme-right conservative TEA Party base and to feed their antigovernment conspiracy narrative.

Tomorrow, we’re the one’s paying for it.
Continue reading

Posted: January 2, 2014 at 9:21 pm

TEA Partiers Try to Run from Ideas They Say They Still Plan to Implement

TEA Party republicans are attempting distance themselves from a group they promoted and for which they appeared as keynote speakers after a local reporter started asking questions.   However, in the same news story, the lawmakers say they plan to implement the very group’s ideas. Here’s what happened.

Continue reading

Posted: December 11, 2013 at 11:02 pm

Separatists Together

The ”Defend Rural America” county secession event that several Montana elected officials are headlining December 16th uses “separation” as a euphemism for secession.  But perhaps the word choice is appropriate given this group’s ties to an infamous separatist of another kind.

Red Beckman is guy whose name you have probably heard before.

In addition to refusing to pay his taxes, Beckman believes that Jewish people are the literal children of Satan, and people of color are sub-human “mud people.” He wrote a book called “The Church Deceived,” where he wrote that the Holocaust was God’s punishment for Jews because they worship the devil.

He was a headliner at the infamous Liberty Convention–the Montana event that included keynote appearances from several white-supremacist speakers including Schaffer Cox, the Alaska militia leader who was convicted last year on 9 counts including conspiracy to kill public employees.

“Defend Rural America” (trademarked!) uses Beckman on their website and in their “literature” as an expert source to rationalize their crackpot beliefs. For example, they cite Beckman in claiming that neither the 16th and 17th amendments to the Constitution, nor the Federal Reserve Bank, were “lawfully passed.” (Screenshot) The group also promotes Red Beckman seminars to train its acolytes. (Screenshot)

When it comes to secession, Defend Rural America has taken to using the word “separation” as a euphemism instead–perhaps in hopes that the naive will not be immediately repelled. On page 10 of this bizarre white paper, the group writes that secession (separation) is one of five wingnut tactics “being pursued to gain control over management of our lands”:

Separation seeks to create new states from existing states to insure rural Americans are represented. This approach is being pursued by certain counties in Colorado, California, and Oregon

Cowgirl tipsters also uncovered another connection between Defend Rural America’s leader, a new world order conspiracy theorist by the name of Kirk MacKenzie, and the tax-evading anti-Semite Red Beckman. Seems MacKenzie is a caller to the birther radio show co-hosted by Red Beckman and Montana birther Dr. Kate “Usurpathon” Vandemoer. (MacKenzie’s appearance can be heard at 90:39). ”Dr. Kate” has been enlisted by Montana TEA Party activists to block tribal sovereignty rights in Montana by opposing the CSKT water compact.

Sen. Jennifer Fielder R-TEA Noxon
Sen. Jennifer Fielder R-TEA Noxon, vice-Chair of the Montana State Republican Party

But perhaps the most surprising connection here is that besides the birther state legislators and county commissioners who are keynoting this event, the vice-Chair of the Montana State Republican party is writing op-ed promoting it.

In addition to headlining this group’s event, Jennifer Fielder, the TEA Party state senator (R-Sanders County), is also openly promoting this organization in an op-ed in her local paper, the Sanders County Ledger. (Screenshots here and here–the Ledger is not online.) Those who are wondering just how far the Montana Republican Party and its elected leaders are willing to go to roll out the welcome mat to the to people with these beliefs may now have an answer.

Posted: December 5, 2013 at 7:19 am

Secessionist Group Gathering MT County Officials Dec. 16

A group called “Defend Rural America” (Trademarked!) is working to get rural counties to secede from states to form their own new states. They’ve organized a meeting of right-wing county officials in Montana this month to “discuss implementation of these ideas” here in Montana.

Defend Rural America has convened and worked with California secessionists to establish the future state of Jefferson. (You can watch a video of the California secessionists gathering here.) The LA Times has an interesting story on Jefferson here. Plans for a “Western Maryland” and “Northern Colorado” are also in the works.

Besides secession, this bunch has some other crackpot beliefs. They say the Endangered Species Act “is used to destroy more of our rights, lands, and resources that any weapons of mass destruction an external enemy could deliver.” Yes, more than a barrage of nuclear bombs, apparently.

They offer–for a small price–valuable pamphlets that explain “the war that is taking place for control of the world between representative governments, on the one hand, and a handful of international banking families on the other.” The group also advises states to “re-established their sovereignty and liberate themselves from ‘the bondage of a (federal) territorial system.’”

You can see the flyer for this eminent  gathering in Kalispell here. County commissioners from Flathead, Ravalli (of course), Mineral, Madison, and Sweetgrass–and a few other elected officials are on the agenda. To be sure, the list of participants reads like a who’s who of TEA Party, Oathkeepers, ATP, and militia-affiliated types.

Jennifer Fielder, the vice-Chair of the Republican Party who has ties to the Militia of Montana, is on the agenda, as well as GOP state legislator Nancy Ballance (R-TEA Ravalli County). Also on the agenda is Dan Happel, the Madison County Commissioner who is featured on the Oathkeepers website for his expertise in Agenda 21 UN conspiracy theories.

Sweeetgrass County Commissioner Bob Faw, subject of campaign finance complaints  and ATP board member, is slated to be on the program. So is Sheriff Tom Rummel, who made headlines when he urged sheriffs across the country against enforcing federal laws. Rummell went on to write that sheriffs should consider actually blocking federal law enforcement officers from enforcing the law either and militia group claim him as a sympathizer. Mineral County Commissioner Laurie Johnston will be there too.

I hope someone goes to this meeting with a video camera. Until then, the main question I have is what the new state (made up of Ravalli, Flathead, Madison, Mineral and Sweetgrass) should be called.

What should Montana's secessionist counties call their new state?

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Posted: October 28, 2013 at 7:00 am

Former GOP Lawmaker Unloads: It’s the Right-Wing Extremism, Stupid

Evangelizing to the far-right rather than actually representing constituents is “eroding the effectiveness of some of our elected state representatives,” says a Republican and former Montana state legislator.

Following yet another embarrassing legislative session,  a panel of lawmakers have been tasked with finding “ways to restore trust, respect, faith and confidence in the legislative branch.”  The panel discussed ways to keep the legislature in Helena more often (the worst nightmare of anyone who is not a sitting legislator.) Continue reading

Posted: September 22, 2013 at 8:55 pm

MT TEA Party Bloggers Uncover Satanist Martial Law Plots (Obama to Blame)

Columbia Falls Blogger Says Satanists Working with Obama to Implement Martial Law

A Columbia Falls religious right blogger says that she has discovered that “Satanists” have infiltrated the White House and the local police and sheriff’s offices to institute martial law across the United States.

Christian prophet and Columbia Falls resident Pamela Rae Schuffert is most known for prophesying that nuclear weapons attacks that were scheduled to take place across America on May 5, 2013 with the goal of implementing martial law on the survivors.

Shuffert also writes that large numbers of UN troops and tanks are already being moved into the U.S. to help Satan and President Obama implement martial law.

Russian Invasion has Already Occurred, Probably

The TEA Party blog PolyMontana took a short break from United Nations conspiracy theories earlier this month to claim that President Obama has planned a Russian invasion of the United states, which has probably already been launched.

Marshalling world-class TEA Party reasoning, the blogger presents the following evidence of the Russian invasion: “FEMA is storing food as much food as they can get their hands on.” Curiously, the blogger doesn’t consider  that this food might be gathered to help tornado or flood victims in times of emergency.

The Russian invasion is an Obama plot–it will be easier you see for the President to implement martial law while patriot militias are distracted with fighting the Russians.

This same author, a guest poster on the PolyMontana blog, explains that Montana features prominently in the conspiracy.   After all, President Obama’s secret stock of 30,000 guillotines, half of which, the author explains, are stored right here in the Big Sky state, will be used by Obama by any who rebel against the martial law order:

Has anyone bothered to do the math? A single guillotine reportedly can chop off the heads of about 100 people per hour. In one hour, the federal government has the capacity to execute as many as three million people. In one ten hour day, 30 million people could be executed by way of the guillotine.

Montana congressional candidate Corey Stapleton is a commenter on these blogs.  And numerous other Republican candidates and legislators all cater to these groups’ beliefs.  As Cowgirl readers know, Jennifer Fielder, who is vice-Chair of the Montana GOP and also a state legislator, and John Trochman, founder of the Militia of Montana, are co-leaders of the Sanders County Resource Council which is notoriously obsessed with conspiracy theories.    Fielder is on the group’s board of directors, according to her website. Here’s the screenshot in case this gets taken down.

There are always deluded people babbling on about conspiracy theories. But the fact that many Montana Republican elected officials and party leaders are inclined to actually engage in such discussions concerns me.


Posted: September 16, 2013 at 7:18 am

Sanders County: GOP Vice-Chair’s Group Hosts Speaker on UN Conspiracy to Turn Americans into Indentured Slaves

The conspiracy theorist fan club operating under the name Sanders County Resource Council, lead by GOP vice-chair Jennifer Fielder is at it again this week.

Their September 18th meeting will feature right-wing conspiracy theorist Rene Holaday, a horse breeder turned amateur “UN researcher” out to expose the United Nations’ conspiracies and “senseless human-hating programs” that will turn Americans into “indentured slaves.”

Ms. Holaday has posted her views on several conspiracy theory blogs, and is pushing a book she’s written on the insidious UN.

The UN plan is to basically turn Americans into feudal society, where we have no rights other than what the “evil ruling lords” allow us peasants, and I’m not exaggerating here one bit. They have already built Sustainable Cities- google “Dong Tan”, “Gallions Park”, “The Ziggurat Project”, etc. This is where they want people to live- in these locked/enclosed cities and away from the environment altogether. These cities are planned to hold as many as 2 million people each, and the corporations are to be within walking distance of these captive, “indentured slaves”.

Ms. Holaday seems unaware that the U.S. is not bound by any decision the UN makes.  It is simply a meeting place for nations. Maybe she was home schooled and thus cannot be held entirely at fault for this misunderstanding.

If you don’t act now, says Holaday, you’re “going to lose everything you have ever grown to know and love in this country, like private property rights, individual rights, rights of man over earth and animal, rights to live where you choose, rights to eat the foods you want to eat, rights to own livestock and pets, etc, etc.”

There currently is no more noble cause, than to take up the fight against the UN’s Sustainable Development Agenda 21. Get started today and have heart Americans, because other cities, counties and one state have already accomplished this.

Holaday quotes the movie Braveheart.  Quotations from Mel Gibson’s Braveheart are considered de rigueur by the TEA Party to translate “complicated” ideas into TEA Party digestible pablum.

“Your heart is free- have the courage to follow it”- Braveheart

This is only the latest in a spree of conspiracy-themed gatherings organized by the militia-affiliated Sanders County Resource Council and the Sanders County Republican Party. The two groups once featured a series of town hall meetings on the ominous threat of bear-activated satellite surveillance systems. GOP vice-Chair Jennifer Fielder led the meetings.

Then they hosted a birther , Catherine Vandemoer, who once tried to organize a national “Usurpathon” to unseat President Obama.  She tried to recruit 10,000 TEA Partiers and birthers to march on Washington and unseat “the Usurper,” President Obama. Unfortunately for Vandemoer, only two people showed up for the Usurpathon. (She claimed after the fact that she intended only two people to show up because more than three people would have required her to get a government permit.)

Also recently, a school superintendent is Sanders County caused a stir after he proposed to install armed volunteers in the local school – an idea so ludicrous even the NRA has abandoned it.

Posted: September 3, 2013 at 7:27 am

Civics Fail

If the GOP’s ideas about education haven’t already convinced you that they aren’t fit to hold elected office, check out the latest from the vice-Chair of the Montana Republican Party.

In a letter to her constituents posted on a couple of right-wing Facebook pages, MTGOP vice-Chair Jennifer Fielder (TEA-SD 7 Sanders County), writes that New York, Florida, or California “rule over the people here Montana simply because there is more of them than there are of us.”

Here’s Fielder:

Consider that California has 55 of the 535 seats in the U.S. Congress. In stark comparison, Montana only has 3. The number each state gets is based on population. Rural states like Montana don’t stand much of a chance in Washington DC.

Fortunately, our founders guaranteed each state a Republican form of government, meaning we largely rule ourselves.

Is Fielder just figuring this out now?  I guess no one told has told her that about another part of the legislative branch called the U.S. Senate–or how the Senate is set up differently, so that low-population states like Montana have more power per capita than large population states.

Perhaps it is this myopic view of how our government works that led the leaders of 2013 Legislature, Jeff Essmann, Art Wittich, and Jason Priest, to appoint Fielder help grow the size of government by serving on a new government commission.  This new government entity, set up by the Utah legislature, will “collaborate with other States to study the rights, powers, and authority of States to serve as a check on the power of the federal government.”

That’s gonna’ be hard to do if the other participants are as misinformed as Fielder.

Fielder’s entire missive can be found below the fold.

Continue reading

Posted: June 24, 2013 at 7:17 am

The Usurpathoner Road Show

A birther who once tried to organize a national “Usurpathon” to unseat President Obama  is taking to the road to obstruct a water rights agreement between Montana and the Confederated Salish and Kootenai Tribes.

The militia-affiliated Sanders County Resource Council (SNaRC) is bringing the Concerned Citizens of Western Montana to Thompson Falls for a Town Hall meeting. The Concerned Citizens of Western Montana is lead by Terry Backs and Catherine “Kate” Vandemoer.  Vandemoer serves as a consultant to this group and its likely that she’s the “specialist” the ad refers too.

Besides campaigning against tribal sovereignty, Vandemoer is also known for her campaign to unseat President Obama, with a national event she called “The Usurpathon.”  Vandemoer attempted to organize 10,000 TEA Partiers and birthers from across the U.S. to descend on Washington and unseat “the Usurper,” President Obama.

“Out from the depths, out of every seam on the sidewalk, from every neglected corner, from the ether we come–filled with the mission of thousands, and the intention of millions to begin the usurpathon–the  siege and removal of the Obama administration.”

Unfortunately for Vandemoer, only two people showed up for the Usurpathon. (She claimed after the fact that she intended only two people to show up because more than three people would have required her to get a government permit.)

Now, the Usurpathoner’s group will keynote the second round of Town Hall meetings organized by Sanders County Resource Council. Their first town hall meeting spree exposed the ominous threat of bear-activated satellite surveillance systems. GOP vice-Chair Jennifer Fielder led the meetings.

An ad in this week’s Sanders County Ledger reads:

Town Hall
Information about the ongoing debate over water use and control in Western Montana

Presented by
Concerned Citizens of Western Montana [link is mine]

Monday, June 24, 2013
7:00 p.m. to 9:00 p.m.
Rex Theater, 1033 Main St.
Downtown Thompson Falls

Sponsored by
Sanders Natural Resource Council
Contact: Carolyn Pierson, Secretary, SNRC  827-****


As Cowgirl readers know, Fielder, who is also a Montana legislator, and John Trochman, founder of the Militia of Montana, are co-leaders of the Sanders County Resource Council.  Fielder is on the group’s board of directors, according to her website. Here’s the screenshot in case this gets taken down.

Trochmann founded the Militia of Montana in the 1990s after the wife and son of white supremacist Randy Weaver were killed in a standoff with federal agents in Ruby Ridge, Idaho. The Alliance Defense League reports that “nearly all of its leaders and chief supporters were white supremacists, including Louis Beam, former ambassador at large for Aryan Nations.”  He’s a big figure in the national militia movement.  And the Sanders County Resource Council was formed by Trochmann specifically to serve as a front group for militia activity.  We know this because Trochmann admitted it, in a radio interview, in which he explains that for legal reasons, he now conducts much of his militia-oriented activity under the guise of several new groups, SNRC among them.

As the Human Rights Network reports, the Militia of Montana was started by a bunch of low-lifes with ties to white supremacists.

John Trochmann and members of his family started the Militia of Montana (MOM) in 1994. Prior to founding MOM, Trochmann spoke at and attended meetings at Idaho’s Aryan Nations. In the mid-1990s as MOM attempted to portray itself as mainstream, Trochmann tried desperately to distance himself and MOM from racist beliefs and Aryan Nations. Richard Butler, leader of Aryan Nations, responded with a letter asking why Trochmann lied about the number of times he had visited the hate group. The letter also stated Trochmann attended several of the group’s Bible studies and helped draft a code of conduct for the Aryan Nations compound. Over the years, MOM distributed material by well-known white supremacists, racist websites, and activists who deny the Holocaust. Its newsletter also published articles claiming Jewish people are the “synagogue of Satan” and control the government.

MOM grew out of another group Trochmann helped organize, United Citizens for Justice (UCJ), the MHRN reports. Some well-known white supremacists were leaders of the UCJ. They included a self-proclaimed neo-Nazi, an editor of a “Christian Identity” magazine (that’s the religion of the Aryan Nations), and a former leader of the Texas Ku Klux Klan. This group eventually folded due to infighting, and reformed as the Militia of Montana.

And Trochmann isn’t the only Sanders County Resource Council activist with a history of involvement with white supremacist militia types.   Again from the MHRN report: “Ed Dosh is a [Sanders County Resource Council] activist. A longtime MOM member, Dosh worked the gun-show and preparedness expo circuit with the group during the 1990s. He’s been a close associate of John Trochmann ever since. Dosh was also a founding member of the Church of True Israel, a white supremacist group that splintered off from Aryan Nations in the mid-1990s.”

Anyway, the last time the Sanders Natural Resource Council (pronounced “SNaRC” by locals) held a town hall, they shared their beliefs that conservationists who support wildlife management of local bear populations are part of a conspiracy to conduct surveillance on the militia movement. Here’s how the bear surveillance conspiracy works, as Trochmann explained in the same radio interview linked to above:

“If you try to do anything with these bears–they have collars on them. If you try to plug a bear and the heart stops there will be a satellite over the top you instantly to take your picture of you and call out the game wardens instantly.”

“What if you plug one of the game wardens?” the host asks. To be sure, the host goes on to clarify his remark :”I was being somewhat facetious–but only somewhat, with that.”